NIWA Community Forums
NIWA Community => NIWA Discussion => Topic started by: Archaic on April 22, 2010, 07:24:17 AM
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Hi Liam,
I was recently told about the problems you'd had in March with the
increased traffic. If there is any offer you would like Wikia to make
to be able to host the Bulbagarden website, please let me know. I hope
we can restart a discussion on what would be an appropriate level of
compensation for you, in either cash, stock, or revenue sharing.
Angela
Thank you Angela, for proving to me once again that Wikia does not actually really care about fandoms whatsoever, that you don't actually watch our trends or care anything about our circumstances.
Here's some news for you. Putting aside the whole NIWA thing, Bulbagarden increased itself from a capacity of 2 servers to 5 servers over the Heart Gold & Soul Silver launch period. If we can afford to put on that kind of cluster to host ourselves, why the hell would we take up your duplicitous offer?
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OH MY GOD THEY'LL GIVE US STOCK OPTIONS :o
You know, I really wonder... would they have been able to stand the amount of load we were under? If TPE were anywhere near our level of quality and stuff?
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Actually, this time she's said outright stock as opposed to stock options, which while better is still not worth it.
Honestly, you'd think that as her email quoted our previous exchanges (so she evidently just hit reply on an old one), she would've noticed the fact that I have a Masters degree in International Business, and that I actively teach this stuff. It's like she assumes that because we run a Pokémon site, that we must not actually be very savvy with finances.
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:D people's ignorance make me laugh sometimes.
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If you're part of the NIWA, you're not going to join Wikia. ...and when did Pokemon ever equal poor?
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My theroy:
she may not be a server-person, so it's possible she doesn't know how much it cost's to run a site. And if she assumes Pokemon fans are poor...because....we spend to much money on merchandise? then of course we don't have enough money to run the site and therefore would need wikia's help.
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Her initial offer for Bulbapedia, way back in...2006 or 2007 I think it was.....was $1000. I think that says it all.
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Perhaps we should join Wikia after all.....
On a serious note, FAIL
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Let us never forget this moment of history... that we stand strong and... breathless from our laughter. :3
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so, are we starting an war between the massive empire and a group of independents? like small stores vs. big franchises, small studios vs. EA or activision and the separatist vs. the republic?
(or, any of the other hundreds of David-v-Golith stories that happen in ficition and history)
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War? No, that's the last thing we want. It's more of a rivaly which has yet to fully happen. We are simply trying to create more efficient wikis which are not tied down by Wikia. Wiki tried to buy out Bulbapedia (again), and failed (again), so hence the "epic." We aren't even that big yet, but we may be some time in the future.
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alright, that's settles my curiosity.... for now *evil laugh* :laugh: :laugh:
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Unfortunatly, the fact that we're not going to outright declare war on them means my "cancer on the internet" paragraph from the draft email reply some of you have seen won't be getting published.
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ow... come on.....please?
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Haha... Angela is ridiculous.
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Do not look directly at her! Your soul will be consumed!
That's how we lost poor Daniel...
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who's Daniel?
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Hehe
this made me giggle.
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Satire Party All Night Long! [Even better, the following image was found on Wikia. :P]
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Invisibles-Tete-a-Tete-poke-bonnet-satire-1810s.jpg)
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i apologize, but what is the relevance?
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Satire Party All Night Long! [Even better, the following image was found on Wikia. :P]
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Invisibles-Tete-a-Tete-poke-bonnet-satire-1810s.jpg)
what the...
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If you know what a satire is, which I'm going to give you by default, I am suggesting that we celebrate (in all unseriousness) Wikia's foolishness with a party. The use of a so called "party" helps it make it a satire.
It is relevant as a silly suggestion (which is not to be taken seriously) because the cause of the party is the action on Wikia's side to try to buy out Bulbapedia again. Kind of like cause and effect. [:l]
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If you know what a satire is, which I'm going to give you by default, I am suggesting that we celebrate (in all unseriousness) Wikia's foolishness with a party. The use of a so called "party" helps it make it a satire.
It is relevant as a silly suggestion (which is not to be taken seriously) because the cause of the party is the action on Wikia's side to try to buy out Bulbapedia again. Kind of like cause and effect. [:l]
I think he was alarmed by the picture, not confused as to what you meant by a satire party. (Or at least, I am)
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Man, that picture does confuse me
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agreed. And i did well in history.
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I have a Wikia account, but after seeing this, I'll probably make it a policy to support independent Wikis.
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Me:
Well, I have one as well.
System: *We appologize, tacopill has been slain*
Me: No i haven't
System: well. You will be soon, you're very ill.
Me: No, i think i'm getting better.
System: No you're not, you'll be stone dead in a moment.
Me: But the wounds are healing. and I don't want to go on the cart.
System: Oh, don't be such a baby.
Me: I feel fine. I think I'll go for a walk.
System: You're not fooling anyone, you know.
Me: I feel happy. I feel happy.
*Clunk*
*System hit tacopill over the head with a blunt object, then places him on the cart*
The Above Script is adopted from Monty Python and The Holly Grail (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071853/) (1975, Python (Monty)) Pictures), in the case you aren't familiar with the movie. If this is the case, please stop what you are doing and go watch it now.
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[unrelated] **** yeah, Monty Python! [/unrelated]
I have nothing left to say about the [actual] topic... other than I kind of want them to do it again so we won't stop laughing.
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This is particularly confusing. How does "she" know Bulbapedia is currently experiencing server errors? Did she simply knew this by going to the website by coincidence? Upon reading what I read, it almost felt like Angela is making an automated message to the head of the wiki. :9
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This is particularly confusing. How does "she" know Bulbapedia is currently experiencing server errors? Did she simply knew this by going to the website by coincidence? Upon reading what I read, it almost felt like Angela is making an automated message to the head of the wiki. :9
You're thinking to hard... drink the punch and enjoy yourself.
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So who's this Daniel person?
Well, grats on standing strong, don't know how you did it, I probably would have gone unconscious from all that laughter.
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This is particularly confusing. How does "she" know Bulbapedia is currently experiencing server errors? Did she simply knew this by going to the website by coincidence? Upon reading what I read, it almost felt like Angela is making an automated message to the head of the wiki. :9
We were experiencing problems back in March, before we added servers 3 through 5. Presumably, it's part of either her job or her subordinates job to keep track of popular non-Wikia wikis. For the record, every time we've actually talked in public before about having financial issues (thank heavens we're financially secure now) or major technical issues, something like this arrived in my inbox a few weeks later.
In any case, this is the reply I sent to Angela earlier.
Angela,
I wasn't going to reply to this initially, but I figure it's best that I do, if only to save myself the trouble of having to read these kinds of emails from you again in the future.
Quite honestly Angela, I'm flabbergasted that you would email me with anything like this. I've felt for a long time that your organisation represented one of the greatest threats to online fan communities, and this email just confirms in my mind everything that I've thought and said regarding Wikia and how little you actually care for the online fan communities that you attempt to absorb.
For starters, if you had cared to actually look into our situation, you would've noted that despite the sustained increased traffic following the English language release of Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver versions (which I note has brought us into the top 2000 websites in the US, with traffic still increasing), Bulbagarden and Bulbapedia's recently upgraded and expanded cluster of 5 servers are currently quite stable and self-supporting. There is no technical or financial reason for us to even think of considering your offer.
However, this isn't what makes your email as astounding as it is. For the record, since both you and your subordinates clearly have not done your research whatsoever, let me point out to you that I am the founder of the Nintendo Independent Wiki Alliance (NIWA), an association of fan wikis including Bulbapedia that was specifically set up to provide support to other independent wikis in the greater Nintendo fandom, and to provide a bulwark against the continued encroachment into it of groups such as Wikia. You will find a link to our Manifesto at the bottom of this paragraph. With the very fact that you sent this email to me clearly demonstrating some of the points we raised there with regards to your management style and lack of interest in the fandoms themselves, I imagine you'll be hearing and seeing a lot more of NIWA over the coming months and years.
http://www.niwanetwork.org/forums/index.php?topic=98.0
I would say more, but now that you're here in Australia, I'll restrain myself so that I don't accidentally fall foul of our slander and libel laws. Suffice it to say that, if it hasn't already sunk in Angela, our answer to your offer is, has been, and always will be, a firm no. There is no possible circumstance under which I or my team would ever consider having Bulbapedia "hosted" by Wikia. Our attitude towards your offer has not changed, and will never. The same goes for our wiki partners in the Encyclopaediae Pokémonis and NIWA networks.
Yours sincerely,
Liam Pomfret
a.k.a. Archaic, Webmaster of Bulbagarden/Bulbapedia; Founder of the Nintendo Independent Wiki Alliance
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:'( It's beautiful man......
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If they don't learn from this... well, I suppose they won't learn at all. And yes, it is beautiful (and surprisingly shinny.)
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Her letter to you sounded as though she were talking to a child. She might as well have offered to trade you the site for a bag of candy to be fully insulting.
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Her letter to you sounded as though she were talking to a child. She might as well have offered to trade you the site for a bag of candy to be fully insulting.
I've wondered a few times if she thinks that the replies I've sent her have been written by "the parent of the webmaster" or something. Does she think we're still in high school or undergraduates or something? I don't have a mass of initials after my name for nothing.
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Nice response
BTW; What has it gotta do at all that she lives in Australia?
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Basically, there's the chance that if I made certain accusations towards her or Wikia, and then started publishing it widely, that she could take me to court locally.
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OH MY GOD THEY'LL GIVE US STOCK OPTIONS :o
You know, I really wonder... would they have been able to stand the amount of load we were under? If TPE were anywhere near our level of quality and stuff?
Yes, they would of. Remember, wikia hosts wiki's that, believe it or not, get a higher volume of traffic and has more quality content than Bulbapedia. You guys are indeed big, but wikia does have bigger wiki's then you. IE WoW Wiki.
They would of had zero problems with the server load.
Still, gotta love the persistence right?
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Great reply, it'll be interesting to see any return response.
Also, sliiiightly off topic, can I just say I find it oddly weird that YEARS ago I was a right little fangirl to your Pokémon fanfic, Archaic. How times change. :x
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My response to this offer:
(http://circleh.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/picard-facepalm1.jpg)
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I know that this is definitely too late to reply, but I had something I wanted to add. On top of what others have said about Wikia's lack of respect towards fan communities, I have noticed that they are actually trying to buy out Bulbapedia to replace their existing Pokemon Wiki (http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_Wiki). If I were the admin of a Wikia site, this would be very unsettling to me. The fact that Wikia has the ability (and is willing) to buy replacement wikis for the hard work that others have put into their own network is simply disgraceful. I don't think I can ever look at a Wikia site again without realizing what a terrible mistake the admins who refuse to leave are making.
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I'll be honest here... if I was approached with a nice offer, I don't know if I would decline for sure. I can completely understand those that might accept her offer if they were in not-so-great financial situations.
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Wikia does not actually really care about fandoms whatsoever
Just a question. Has Bulbagarden ever tried to go one further and screw wikia over? e.g. by attempting to merge with pokémon wikia. I dont know what their stance is on independant wikis but it seems like a good idea just to merge with the wikia that they tried to replace. ;D
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Wikia does not actually really care about fandoms whatsoever
Just a question. Has Bulbagarden ever tried to go one further and screw wikia over? e.g. by attempting to merge with pokémon wikia. I dont know what their stance is on independant wikis but it seems like a good idea just to merge with the wikia that they tried to replace. ;D
That has a very low chance of working out. Why? Because the wikis have had past problems and because the polices are varying from what I've seen.. I mean it works with Lylat Wiki and AC Wiki because at least one of the wikis is still deciding how to run it, but Bulbapedia and the Pokémon Wiki(a) are already standalone wikis.
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Wikia will not allow wikis from Wikia to merge with external wikis. They do not offer any help with it at all. I know as I have asked about it in the past.
It is good that you never gave in to Angela. She, along with the other staff, have ruined Wikia with the new skin. I only work on two wikis now, an answers wiki, UnAnswers, that is a joke answers site and Fable wiki. I still work at Fable as I tried to get the community to move but it didn't happen.
As of now, I have moved my other major wiki, Wikisimpsons, to ShoutWiki. I thought about self hosting but I am still young and don't have the money to host a wiki.
Whoops, I appear to have gone off topic a bit. Anyway, Wikia sickens me. They caused a lot of controversy with the buying of Uncyclopedia. I really wish that they never gave in. Just happy to see you hold up and not give in.
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I know that this is definitely too late to reply, but I had something I wanted to add. On top of what others have said about Wikia's lack of respect towards fan communities, I have noticed that they are actually trying to buy out Bulbapedia to replace their existing Pokemon Wiki (http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_Wiki). If I were the admin of a Wikia site, this would be very unsettling to me. The fact that Wikia has the ability (and is willing) to buy replacement wikis for the hard work that others have put into their own network is simply disgraceful. I don't think I can ever look at a Wikia site again without realizing what a terrible mistake the admins who refuse to leave are making.
They'd probably do something like with Lostpedia, with Lostpedia going to lostpedia.wikia.com and the other Lost wiki just staying at lost.wikia.com, only with no hope of becoming a true big wiki.
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why not?
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Wikia will not allow wikis from Wikia to merge with external wikis. They do not offer any help with it at all. I know as I have asked about it in the past.
It is good that you never gave in to Angela. She, along with the other staff, have ruined Wikia with the new skin. I only work on two wikis now, an answers wiki, UnAnswers, that is a joke answers site and Fable wiki. I still work at Fable as I tried to get the community to move but it didn't happen.
As of now, I have moved my other major wiki, Wikisimpsons, to ShoutWiki. I thought about self hosting but I am still young and don't have the money to host a wiki.
Whoops, I appear to have gone off topic a bit. Anyway, Wikia sickens me. They caused a lot of controversy with the buying of Uncyclopedia. I really wish that they never gave in. Just happy to see you hold up and not give in.
I'm actually a huge fan of Wikisimpsons. I'm a little busy right now with Animal Crossing Wiki, but I may be able to offer some hosting for you at a later time. :) Anything to get someone off Wikia!
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Lookie what I found. (http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Special:CloseWiki/information/bulbapedia)
Wow. Did Wikia actually think Bulbapedia would join so much as to create bulbapedia.wikia.com? Those poor sods. Its possible that it was a normal user, but somehow, I doubt it.
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Lookie what I found. (http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Special:CloseWiki/information/bulbapedia)
Wow. Did Wikia actually think Bulbapedia would join so much as to create bulbapedia.wikia.com? Those poor sods. Its possible that it was a normal user, but somehow, I doubt it.
I dunno, you would be surprised. I could actually swear one time when some random kid decided to make a Wikia and call it "THE BULBAPEDIA WIKI" or something. There's been a lot of (innocent) rip-offs of BP, though, so they all kind of blend with each other in my memories. 8(
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Shush, I like to make fun of Wikia.
Don't ruin this for me.
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Yeah, I found that and notified the staff. They closed the wiki after.
They were stealing all of the content from Bulbapedia.
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you mean it wasn't a wiki about bulbapedia? :D it's history, the bulbagarden network, etc.
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you mean it wasn't a wiki about bulbapedia? :D it's history, the bulbagarden network, etc.
Exactly. They were some people "moving" Bulbapedia to Wikia. I first saw it a week after it was closed.
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So why does Wikia even need to buy Bulbapedia if they have vandals do it for free :D
J/k.
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GO ON A CRAPPY SERVER, LOSE CONTROL OVER OUR WIKI SYSTEM, GET USELESS SUPPORT AND A HORRIBLE SKIN?
GEE, WHAT A GOOD IDEA!
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Please watch your language.
And to whoever reported this, we don't have rules against reviving old threads. Thanks for trying to help, though.
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I'm not trying to be offensive, but I can't believe that 3 1/2... I think, of NIWA's wikis came from Wikia. Again, no offense, and I know this is a bit off topic.
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More than that. Here's the list I started:
SmashWiki
Pikipedia
Pikmin Fanon
Animal Crossing City => Animal Crossing Wiki
Arwingpedia => Lylat Wiki
Donkey Kong Wiki
Golden Sun Universe
(Plus F-Zero Wiki, which I'm pretty sure is on its way)
On a more curious note, I'm not sure I understand what was meant by your post. Are you implying that NIWA has too many Wikia-converts? Or am I misreading that?
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N-n-n-n-n-n-n-no. I was simply implying that I can't believe such great wikis can come from a terrible administrated place such as Wikia. I mean, seriously, I found this piece of crap (http://bacon.wikia.com/wiki/Bacon_Wiki) while fooling around on the internet. NO OFFENSE!!!!!!!!! I'm talking about the care that goes into some of the wikis, some can have 100,000 pages and be active everyday, but on some the creator could have made 1 page and forgot about the wiki forever. Blargh-a-dee-flarg!
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Ah! I see. :D That makes much more sense. Gotta commend those that put time and effort into their wikis. Thanks for clarifying :) Let's hope the list of Wikia converts continues to grow in time.
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N-n-n-n-n-n-n-no. I was simply implying that I can't believe such great wikis can come from a terrible administrated place such as Wikia. I mean, seriously, I found this piece of crap (http://bacon.wikia.com/wiki/Bacon_Wiki) while fooling around on the internet. NO OFFENSE!!!!!!!!! I'm talking about the care that goes into some of the wikis, some can have 100,000 pages and be active everyday, but on some the creator could have made 1 page and forgot about the wiki forever. Blargh-a-dee-flarg!
I understand that we have a hatred for Wikia around here, but I think that's completely disingenuous to the communities there to insinuate that it is difficult to build great wikis/communities even on a controlling platform. Nintendo is very controlling of what goes on its platforms, more so than it's competitors. Yet here we have a community singing the praises of Nintendo. Why is that: Because Nintendo's controlling actions for its platforms doesn't really affect us, but it would affect a different community of gamers (homebrewers, modders, etc...), and they don't always have kind things to say about Nintendo.
In short: Don't let our perspective as a competitor of Wikia cloud your view that Wikia is still a useful tool to many people.
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N-n-n-n-n-n-n-no. I was simply implying that I can't believe such great wikis can come from a terrible administrated place such as Wikia. I mean, seriously, I found this piece of crap (http://bacon.wikia.com/wiki/Bacon_Wiki) while fooling around on the internet. NO OFFENSE!!!!!!!!! I'm talking about the care that goes into some of the wikis, some can have 100,000 pages and be active everyday, but on some the creator could have made 1 page and forgot about the wiki forever. Blargh-a-dee-flarg!
There should be plenty of rubbish Wikias out there like this (http://moron.wikia.com/wiki/Moron_Wiki), but there are also plenty of rubbish wikis at other hosts. There are also independent ones, but there would be significantly fewer due to having to pay for them. It's not really Wikia's fault that it has these kind of wikis.
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I'm an admin at Bacon Wiki. I was going to apply for NIWA Membership next week.
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Hell, there are independent wikis that are garbage (http://www.conservapedia.com/Main_Page) as well.
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I'm an admin at Bacon Wiki. I was going to apply for NIWA Membership next week.
Ah, yes. The Bacon series of games was my favourite Nintendo series. Bacon Sizzling was the best game in the series by far! :P
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I'm an admin at Bacon Wiki. I was going to apply for NIWA Membership next week.
Ah, yes. The Bacon series of games was my favourite Nintendo series. Bacon Sizzling was the best game in the series by far! :P
aka the Cooking Mama franchise.
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In my days in Wikia I was guilty for making a wikia and then forgetting about it. I would make.. i don't even remember now.
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In my days in Wikia I was guilty for making a wikia and then forgetting about it. I would make.. i don't even remember now.
Same! I made a wiki for the Farmyard. I forgot after about 90 minutes. However, once I found http://egovernance.wikia.com/wiki/EGovernance_Solution_for_Urban_Local_Bodies (http://egovernance.wikia.com/wiki/EGovernance_Solution_for_Urban_Local_Bodies) that, it has one article, the main page, filled with all sorts of sexual spam.
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In my days in Wikia I was guilty for making a wikia and then forgetting about it. I would make.. i don't even remember now.
Same! I made a wiki for the Farmyard. I forgot after about 90 minutes. However, once I found http://egovernance.wikia.com/wiki/EGovernance_Solution_for_Urban_Local_Bodies (http://egovernance.wikia.com/wiki/EGovernance_Solution_for_Urban_Local_Bodies) that, it has one article, the main page, filled with all sorts of sexual spam.
I like the create an article button. :D
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Guys, I'm going to close this thread now. The Wikia offer to Bulbapedia was months and months and months ago now, having this constantly get bumped makes it look like a recent event, and misrepresenting what happened isn't in our best interests.