NIWA Community Forums
NIWA Community => NIWA Discussion => Topic started by: Justin on October 01, 2010, 03:23:42 AM
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Guys, it has become painfully obvious that we are stuck. None of us can ever agree on anything, we're at a deadlock in most of our discussions, and we're stagnated on so many things.
This is why we need a leader. We need someone to say "This is what's going on, let's do this." If we do not choose someone to make final decisions when we're deadlocked, we're never going to get anywhere.
I elect Xizor for this task, as he has experience as a webmaster of LegendofZelda.com and is pretty good at resolving discussions. He's always one of the first to call us out when something goes wrong, as well. So far, I've seen exceptional decision making on his part, and I feel that having him in this position would benefit us.
Now, this is not a leader to enforce any policy upon the member wikis. It is only a leader in organizing the NIWA itself. Also, Xizor will not become "Supreme overlord" and take 100% control of NIWA. We, the wiki staff, will still be in charge equally. However, should something come up where we're stuck and unable to reach a compromise, he'll be there to have a final say and close the discussion.
This arose as part of a Skype discussion on leadership (yes, I know, Skype = bad and whatnot, but I have the whole conversation logs for anyone who wants to see.)
Also, if you think you know someone better suited for this role than Xizor, please name then and list the reasons why.
By the way, Xizor will not start doing EVERYTHING like FTP and graphic design. He will simply have the power to close discussions, as mentioned above.
What are your thoughts?
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I'm posting just to quickly say that I am willing to do this if it's asked of me. I know I am capable, and I have experience both offline and online. Know that this was not initially an idea sparked by me, and it's not an attempt to grab any power. I'm willing to help if it's wanted.
It's also very VERY important that everybody is honest. I will not take anything personally, so if you have something to say, please don't hold back. If you have a question for me, I will answer as quickly and honestly as I can.
Otherwise, I think it proper for me to take a bit of a back seat in this discussion.
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Let's try out new things! Isn't what NIWA is all out? Grow and adapt. Let's just lead where it is.
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Well, I've known Xizor for a couple of years now, and I think he's very trustable and respectable for the position. NIWA needs someone who's neutral but also has the direction and vision to take NIWA to where it should go. The reform discussions he sparked months ago show that he knows the direction NIWA should be taken.
A "project manager" type role is needed to coordinate everyone, motivate everyone and make sure decisions are made and stuff gets done. Xizor has proven himself more than capable through working at Zelda Wiki.org and Legend of Zelda.com.
So, yeah, I support the idea for a leader and Xizor suits the job perfectly.
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Aye. I have no problems. I think Xizor has definitely proven himself through ZW and LoZ.com. Pretty much to echo what everyone else said above. I think he's, overall, a good choice.
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A leader, eh?
I think NIWA's problems are mostly communication issues, as well as the fact that we lost sight of what this project was originally going to be: An alliance of wikis, with each of the participants profiting from the alliance through interwiki links and such things. This mindset was slowly replaced with an anti-wikia policy which grew out of hand in a disproportional way and poisoned our project beyond recognition.
Since we obviously lost track of our original intents, we need someone who can get us back on track. Someone who isn't afraid to communicate with the other participants in this union. Someone who carries the true and original spirit of NIWA.
That's why I nominate the one who has proven on several occasions, to me at least, that he possesses these qualities. I mostly see him (and Neo) being involved with the community aspects of NIWA, so it only makes sense to me.
I nominate Axiomist for the position of the leader.
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I too nominate Axiomist.
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I think the idea of a leader could be just what we need to get things back on track and, crucially, keep them there.
It's a similar concept to what the leaders of each wiki were supposed to be (in the proposed model of leader and representatives), but any good project really needs to be headed by a single project manager, not a whole committee.
I'd support either Xizor (Nick) or Axiomist (Josh) for the role; they both have my full trust and confidence, and I'm certain they have the right personality, experience and qualities to effectively steer NIWA in the direction we all want to see it heading.
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I support Axiomist
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I think Xizor definitely has the qualifications and ideas for being a manager here, so I absolutely support him taking charge here.
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May I ask if anyone knows whether Axiomist is willing for the position? Seen as there are numerous people supporting him, we really need to know whether he wants to do it.
So Ax, can you express whether you're interested, like Xizor did?
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I agree that the project needs a firm leadership system, and things will always go wrong if there isn't a leader at the top of it all.
While I don't know many of the others well at all, I would also say Axiomist would be a good leader.
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Initially I wasn't keen on the idea of a leader, as NIWA staff is composed of people already in leadership positions in collaborative projects, so the idea seemed like an oxymoron to me. But if so many people feel its worth a shot, then I'm willing to give it a go. I think I have a firm grasp on the state of NIWA, strong positive relations with my fellows here (as well as with the pending members), and a pretty solid understanding of each wikis' strong points, weak points, & personalities.
Naturally I have a few misgivings. Leader is meh... if I end up being chosen, I'd prefer the title Numero Uno Cultivator or something gardeny to match NIWA=garden. :D I think we've strongly overlooked that great aspect of the name and should work to actually theme NIWA more fittingly.
Secondly, for a while now, I've felt that the Mario Wiki guys seem left out. I've asked them to compile a Wish List so we could give them a hand on things where they'd like for us to. And started announcing new Shroom issues on WiKirby's Main Page, in an effort to patch up the divide with more cross-wiki projects. But no one really came to help out on the Table Guide with the goal of getting something comprehensive on each wiki for a useful feature of MediaWiki. I built it as much as I could, and was sort of distressed to see so many complaints on how NIWA wasn't living up to what it was meant to be; all while any of the projects aimed for multiwiki benefit sat around neglected.
I've also slighted what I could do on WiKirby in favor of trying to maintain and grow the organization. Now I'm not supportive of adding members as soon as they have MediaWiki installed. I still think it's up to them to create the wiki and shape it before we throw it out to the masses. Let's face it, the public is dog-eat-dog. Despite not wanting to add a wiki while I feel it's underdeveloped, I still put aside building up my own wiki to give a hand here and there. 200 articles might be too high, but the only things I really look for is
- A developed Main Page
- Policies
- Example articles for core aspects beyond stub status
- Staff activity
I do realize NIWA can help small wikis grow and that's evidenced by Wars Wiki, WiKirby, and Metroid Wiki. Wars Wiki existed preNIWA, so I felt they deserved membership before WK and MW.o. A special case if you will. WK and MW.o took two vastly different approaches. Adam and I chose to work slowly in the background and launch when we were ripe. MW went full bore head to head with a rather nasty competitor. Having Zeldapedia issues in mind while working on WK, I approached the Wikia version prior to our launch to cement the relationship and ensure plagiarism wouldn't be tolerated on WK's end. The results of the two approaches aren't totally clear as MW has more articles, members, views, etc. I constantly read complaints of the staff being the only active editors. Ultimately, I think MW.o is doing well considering the Wikitroid entrenchment, but because of a great staff, Steve's design, and whatever little help came out of the skype chats among NIWA members.
This is somewhat relevant as inducting new wikis seems to be the primary polarizing point here these days. It will be difficult to replicate MW.o's success story, using the same management style. I still feel Lylat Wiki could have worked on their Main Page, defined colors, and either added all of the redlinks to flair images in all of the templates Example (look for "FoxHeadSprite" everywhere) (http://starfoxwiki.org/Lylat_Wiki:Characters) or removed them for later. I've messaged Tacopill and Justin these suggestions, but it seems the induction was already decided and there was no incentive to make changes. This thread is unsettling (http://www.niwanetwork.org/forums/index.php?topic=352.0), because it seems like no one else mattered outside of Xizor, Mandi, Mel, and Justin. Anywho, the deed is done and I'm not protesting it, just stating my opinion so everyone knows my stance on the most divisive current issue (adding the startups), so they can make a fully informed decision about me one way or the other.
To sum it all up, NIWA can't help anything grow if people think it's our fertilizer and reject it on the first visit, so yeah, we ought to reject every startup application on the first submission and list things they need to do beforehand-minor things mainly. And the most important part, talk to them, and/or help them.
Sorry for the long post, but that's what I had to say.
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Naturally I have a few misgivings. Leader is meh... if I end up being chosen, I'd prefer the title Numero Uno Cultivator or something gardeny to match NIWA=garden. :D I think we've strongly overlooked that great aspect of the name and should work to actually theme NIWA more fittingly.
I hardly find this necessary. It's not a leader in that you'd be the head of all of NIWA. It's more of a mediator who resolves disputes by coming up with a compromise and nothing more.
This is somewhat relevant as inducting new wikis seems to be the primary polarizing point here these days. It will be difficult to replicate MW.o's success story, using the same management style. I still feel Lylat Wiki could have worked on their Main Page, defined colors, and either added all of the redlinks to flair images in all of the templates Example (look for "FoxHeadSprite" everywhere) (http://starfoxwiki.org/Lylat_Wiki:Characters) or removed them for later. I've messaged Tacopill and Justin these suggestions, but it seems the induction was already decided and there was no incentive to make changes. This thread is unsettling (http://www.niwanetwork.org/forums/index.php?topic=352.0), because it seems like no one else mattered outside of Xizor, Mandi, Mel, and Justin. Anywho, the deed is done and I'm not protesting it, just stating my opinion so everyone knows my stance on the most divisive current issue (adding the startups), so they can make a fully informed decision about me one way or the other.
The main issue here is "time," not that we don't care.
To sum it all up, NIWA can't help anything grow if people think it's our fertilizer and reject it on the first visit, so yeah, we ought to reject every startup application on the first submission and list things they need to do beforehand-minor things mainly. And the most important part, talk to them, and/or help them.
This is utterly ridiculous. So if we get an app from a great wiki, we just tell them "no" instantly? That's biased and ridiculous.
Again, from the looks of your post, you misconceptions of what the leader would be. It's not a "NIWA superbeing," it's someone who helps us get things done by going "Okay, these people want this and those people want that. We're going to compromise with this. Discussion over."
I'd advise you to take that into consideration and repost.
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To sum it all up, NIWA can't help anything grow if people think it's our fertilizer and reject it on the first visit, so yeah, we ought to reject every startup application on the first submission and list things they need to do beforehand-minor things mainly. And the most important part, talk to them, and/or help them.
This would be a very bad idea. NIWA should already have more wikis than what we currently have. But, yet, it's that type of attitude (i.e. waiting for the "perfect" wiki to come along) that lead us to our current state. I think rejecting a new submission to list things that they need to improve on and wait on them to reapply basically defeats the purpose of NIWA.
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I support Axiomist. Although he might have misinterpreted exactly what the leader position would do, I still think he's qualified and that once he sees the corrections pointed to him, he'll understand.
To sum it all up, NIWA can't help anything grow if people think it's our fertilizer and reject it on the first visit, so yeah, we ought to reject every startup application on the first submission and list things they need to do beforehand-minor things mainly. And the most important part, talk to them, and/or help them.
I completely disagree with this, though. We've pretty much been doing this, and we've been trying to change it. Remember:
(http://userpedia.adriels.com/images/e/ef/Diagram_blank.PNG)
Immediately denying a request and forcing them to reapply is definitely too far into the red.
I still think subjective evaluation is the way to go. In that system, some will go a little far into the red and some a little far into the blue. But I think with the amount of people on the NIWA staff, the average opinion will most likely even out. It's the best suggestion we have so far, and I think it has the most support so far. It also gives way for a much more open debate and discussion about accepting wikis into our organization.
To draw from what you said, though, we can judge using this kind of rubric:
- A developed Main Page
- Policies
- Example articles for core aspects beyond stub status
- Staff activity
- The necessity for a wiki that covers a certain topic.
- Editors' willingness to work with NIWA staff
Some people will think that a simpler main page is good, some will think that a more complex and filled-out main page is better. Some will think that a wiki should have lenient policy, some think a wiki should have strict policy. Some of us have different definitions for stubs. Some of us have a different view on what "active" really means. Some have different views on the necessity of covering a certain topic. And some of us have different views on whether a wiki and its community will actually cooperate with us or not.
But these differences are what makes NIWA. If we were all the same and had the same point of view, then we'll just be a static, linear organization. But having different opinions thrown into the mix makes us dynamic and diverse. Of course we won't be perfect. We never will be. But making overly bureaucratic policies that force a certain view on the staff members just stunts our growth.
And I'll make an analogy here. We are a garden, yes? We claim that our garden grows many kinds of vegetables and fruits and crops. Yet we often find ourselves purposefully killing some of our crops because we don't think it'll sell well. NIWA is the garden. Our claims to growing diverse crops is our claim that we try to accept and help nurture any Nintendo wiki; whether it be an older wiki (such as Wars Wiki) or a newer one (such as Lylat Wiki) or whatever. Our killing certain crops because we don't think it will sell is our constant refusal of certain applying wikis just because they're a bit underdeveloped.
Once again, I find it ridiculous that WikiBound and ACWiki aren't members, or that they aren't confirmed to be joining yet. Sure, they don't meet all qualifications. But as gardeners, we should stick with our crops to the end. We should try our best to make our garden into a wealth of carrots and tomatoes and other kinds of things. It's the only way we can move forward.
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I think Xizor would be more suited to this role for the following reasons.
We need someone who's fairly neutral and can maintain a neutral view in order to help resolve our differences. Ax often tend to have strong feelings about his opinions, and I've seen him get pretty defensive over them, sometimes to the point of being downright rude. I've seen Xizor argue over his opinions, too, but he normally tries to remain as polite and calm as possible.
Also, this position requires the ability to deal with people, even those who are sometimes difficult or unwilling to budge on their views. Ax left Zelda Wiki because he couldn't deal with exactly that. If he couldn't handle it then from one person, how can we expect him to be able to deal with the volume of people we have? Xizor, on the other hand, has expressed his ability to work with anyone, really. I'm sure he'd be very willing to accommodate all new and current NIWA staff.
Lastly, my final concern about Ax is that he's acted brashly on several occasions before, such as when he made the thread about Lylat Wiki. I'm not mad about that particular incident at all. It merely raises a concern in my head that he may just go off on someone whom he dislikes or with whom he disagrees, and that is hardly the sort of behavior I want to see from anyone, let alone someone we call "leader." I've also seen some brash moves from Xizor, as well, but he understood he was in the wrong and apologized to everyone. That tells me that he is eager to learn from his mistakes so he doesn't repeat them.
This is by no means an attack on Ax or his character. I like him, but I don't think he's quite cut out for this.
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(http://userpedia.adriels.com/images/e/ef/Diagram_blank.PNG)
So..... i actually don't understand what this graph means. is it bad to be in the RED and good to be in the Blue? if so, then why does it have a plus sign and not a minus?
if it is good to be in the RED, then going too far into it an example of a having a "too much of a good thing is bad"?
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(http://userpedia.adriels.com/images/e/ef/Diagram_blank.PNG)
So..... i actually don't understand what this graph means. is it bad to be in the RED and good to be in the Blue? if so, then why does it have a plus sign and not a minus?
if it is good to be in the RED, then going too far into it an example of a having a "too much of a good thing is bad"?
No. I used this diagram in another thread. :P
The black line in the middle is good. The red means more of something, blue means less of something. Here's a link to the first time I used the diagram: link (http://www.niwanetwork.org/forums/index.php?topic=380.msg6632#msg6632).
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Ah. Thank you for explaining that.
And sorry, i guess in my archive reading, i haven't ran into that thread yet. ;D
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No problem!
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Also, while i have really no opinion on who wins out on the leader position, i would like to offer my services to them in whatever they need.
I am interested in helping NIWA in growing and becoming it's own entity.
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I think that Xizor is better suited for this position. He's a fairly neutral person which I think is a quality that would be needed in order to resolve differences. I've worked with both Xizor and Ax and I've found that Ax can act really harshly with people he dislikes, and he would often oppose and purposefully disagree with the people he disliked simply for the fact that he did not like them. I'm not trying to bash Ax or be rude, but I hardly can find someone with his attitude and personality being a productive choice as a leader.
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Thanks for that Ax - so we now know that we have two people willing to be the 'leader' - though I do believe we need to think of a more appropriate title, such as 'Co-ordinator' or 'Project Manager'. What I'm not sure of is how we are going to decide upon the whom. Perhaps a vote between Xizor and Axiomist will be necessary, but the idea of a whole popularity contest makes me hesitant. I personally hope that we can unanimously decide, through discussions, which of the two is a better leader.
With that said, I'd like to reaffirm my reasoning for why I believe Xizor is more suitable for the position than Axiomist. It's nothing personal, it's about who I think has the better portfolio for the position. Firstly, is stability. Xizor has proven long-term stability and commitment to online communities, such as through LegendofZelda.com and Zelda Wiki.org. Axiomist often has week long work commitments where he cannot access the internet, which is not preferrable for someone who is to be organizing NIWA. They need to have continous access and dedication to keep everything on track.
Next is a matter of unbiasedness and vested interests. For example, I wouldn't be a good leader for NIWA because I've put so much work into what we have here today. Axiomist is pretty similar in the fact that he has put a lot of effort into what we currently have. The problem? It's what we currently have they needs to change. People with attachment/ dedication to being so involved in NIWA's founding and setting up may not be preferable for the position. Xizor has been here all along, and threads such as his reform a few months back show that he does care about NIWA. Although a person who aided in the founding and set up, he is somewhat an outsider. He can (and has) identified what NIWA's issues are and can work towards fixing them. He has an outside view to a degree, which has benefits over only inside views.
With my past work with Xizor at Zelda Wiki and here at NIWA, he is very suitable. He can communicate fine, co-ordinate - everything we need in a leader. I'm not going to make assumptions about Axiomist's leadership skills, because frankly, I haven't seen them. During our time together at Zelda Wiki.org, he demonstrated skills as a team player, but not a leader. Xizor has thoroughly demonstrated them. Lastly the leader needs to make tough decisions. They need to be respected, and wanted by the majority, but they can't always make everyone happy - like politicians. They need to be able to do what is right, not what seems good. From my dealing with Xizor, he has experience in having to lead in such a manner. Axiomist I feel cares more largely about what people will think of him, and may not always necessarily lead where is correct, over what is popular.
Overall, yes we need a leader, and either Axiomist or Xizor is better than none, but the above is why Xizor, in my opinion, is much more befitting of a NIWA leadership role. May I ask of those people that nominated Axiomist to express their detailed opinions of why they have done so and why he is more suited then Xizor for the role. Please everyone remember, more importantly than anything, this is all about what's best for NIWA, and has absolutely nothing to do with anyone's egos.
EDIT: I assume the eventually agreed upon leader will get admin rights???
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EDIT: I assume the eventually agreed upon leader will get admin rights???
That's what I assumed as well.
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I was under the same impression.
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Okay then, back to the 'who' and 'why'?
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Question: Is anyone else going to be considered for, or put themselves forward for the role? Or is it pretty much between Ax and Xizor? If so:
Perhaps a vote between Xizor and Axiomist will be necessary, but the idea of a whole popularity contest makes me hesitant. I personally hope that we can unanimously decide, through discussions, which of the two is a better leader.
Personally, I think enough's been said, and there are sufficient points in this thread for everyone to evaluate and base their decision on. While it would be ideal to all come to a unanimous decision, I think a decisive majority will be more than sufficient. All I can see happening by continuing this discussion is that it falls into repetition and we go around in circles.
Consensus is great, but a majority vote is far more efficient in getting things actually moving forwards. With that said, I move for an immediate vote (based on the initial assumption of two candidates). If there are no objections, I'll post a poll later on today.
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I think it'd be best if we let a few more people weigh in and state if they even want a Leader of this nature at all. I think making a poll at this point is a bit hasty. We've lasted this long without a Leader. I think we can spare a few more days to just take our time with it.
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I think I agree that a poll is the way to go for decisiveness, but also that we should hold off a bit longer. I've said plenty in here, but I know people (myself included) are wanting Archaic's input into this topic, due to him being a founder, owner and original conceptualizer of NIWA. He is after all, the closest current person we have to a 'leader'.
Question: Is anyone else going to be considered for, or put themselves forward for the role? Or is it pretty much between Ax and Xizor?
Those two are the only two who have strongly stood out amongst the voice of the community as people 'nominated' for the role from what I have seen. Other names were mentioned briefly in the Skype chat, but were uninterested in the position.
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I have something to say... Wasn't Archaic the leader?
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I have something to say... Wasn't Archaic the leader?
Yes, Archaic is still the de facto "leader" as far as I'm (and I'm sure many others are) concerned.
Ideally a less ambiguous and more specific term should've been chosen before posting this topic. What we're discussing is someone who could be termed an arbiter/arbitrator/adjudicator. Someone to mediate discussions, and guide them towards consensus and resolution, and then ensure that the agreed action is taken. You know, all the things that aren't happening at the moment :P
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Well, I'm not sure if everybody is happy to move ahead with the poll yet - but not much is really happening with the thread just sitting here. It seems not much more is left to add. Archaic should be aware of its presence due to the IMs and PMs sent to him by now.
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Let's wait for Archaic to input something
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You'll have to wait a little longer sorry, until the weekend. I'm swamped right now with my thesis, with a deadline on a part this Friday that I'm going to struggle to meet. Haven't been able to read everything in full.
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Don't worry, we have time, and this is a decision we shouldn't rush
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Do you guys think Tucayo would be a good adjudicator? Of course I'm not trying to say Xizor and Axiomist aren't qualified, because they seem like they could be suited for the job, but I would like to get thoughts.
I've known Tucayo for a year. He has been a great leader in the community; holding numerous staff positions at the Super Mario Wiki (former Patroller, current Sysop, former 'Shroom director, current 'Shroom sub-director, and chat operator), WiKirby staff (he's listed as an "Ambassador"), NIWA forum administrator, and Userpedia (kind of related to the SMW community) sysop.
All that said, I've seen him work not only as a leader, but also as a team-player. When he went on hiatus just a few months ago, he stuck around to give input on SMW issues and NIWA issues. I've seen him on the NIWA forum almost every single day since it began, and he has been consistent in giving his opinions and accepting other opinions. If somebody comes up with an idea that he might not agree with, he doesn't discredit them outright and say their idea is worthless; whether or not he ends up agreeing with the other side or not, he listens to them and considers their points carefully and thoroughly.
He's a great leader and a great team player. He's kind and courteous to all that he works with; I know many people that have been rude to him and that he has responded with nothing less than respectfulness. He has put a lot of care and effort into helping out over here at NIWA; I think he would certainly be able to extend his help and service further if he is given this opportunity.
That all said, I'm sure you all know who I support now. Once again, I wish no hard feelings to Xizor or Axiomist. I feel all of you are qualified; it's just that Tucky is the nominee that I have worked most with and have seen him in action. I feel he should be given mention and consideration before this goes up on to some poll for voting.
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Wow, I feel flattered :)
I would be more than glad to receive this honor, of course, if you want me to.
I have been working on NIWA since its first days, I know it from the base, I know the history, and also, I know the community
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I just want to make sure we don't forget this ongoing discussion. Does anybody else have anything to add?
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I think Archaic was going to say something
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he said he was going to, but his thesis has distracted him.
I'm very far behind on this thesis right now, can someone please follow these guys up?
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I feel like this was ignored.
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I feel like this was ignored.
it probably was. But Archaic has an excuse, life got in the way.
Ironically, this helps prove why we need a leader: To help kick us back into motion when we need it.
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Perhaps we should move on with a formal voting process
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I was going to say that.
In any case, I'm attaching a poll with 3 options: Ax, Xizor, and Tucayo.
Make your vote and we can get on with it :P
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voted.
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Hmm, a poll already. I thought we said we weren't going to rush this. I'm thinking even after the poll seems closed, we should still talk about it some more. And also it's best to establish the whole "no hard feelings" sort of thing. Like I really don't want to see someone ragequit or something because of the poll's outcome lol. i'm sure no one is this immature, but it's best to get it out of the way.
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Hmm, a poll already. I thought we said we weren't going to rush this. I'm thinking even after the poll seems closed, we should still talk about it some more. And also it's best to establish the whole "no hard feelings" sort of thing. Like I really don't want to see someone ragequit or something because of the poll's outcome lol. i'm sure no one is this immature, but it's best to get it out of the way.
well, the reason we want a leader is so that we stop stagnating. If we continue to, won't we just being doing what we trying to avoid?
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If I lose, I won't ragequit, actually, I will stay to help the new leader in whatever he may need help
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Of course if I'm not selected, I will assist the chosen person as much as I can.
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I think the three nominated persons are more than mature enough to handle being outvoted.
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By the way, guys, the poll stays open for seven days. That's one full week to get everyone to vote.
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I'll announce the topic among the Wikis staff so people see it :)
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When is the poll set to close?
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It's over.
*ahem*
Everyone, it appears that Xizor is our new leader.
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It's over.
*ahem*
Everyone, it appears that Xizor is our new leader.
congradulations! Now, what is his title? NIWA Chair? CEO?
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what is his title? NIWA Chair? CEO?
I was thinking "Coordinator", seems less officious and ruler-ish, and closer to what he'll actually be doing :)
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Congrats!
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Now, I believe we agreed that the winner would get admin rights, no?
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Congrats, Xizor! ;D
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Admin Rights - I believe we did decide that.
Name - I would think that "Manager" would imply the same thing as "Coordinator" but also give the finality in the situations where my authority would reach that we desire. I don't really have my heart set on any particular name, though.
I appreciate that you all are trusting me with this responsibility, and I will do my best not to let NIWA down. As of right now, I'm having to write this on a university library computer, as my computer's been in for repair since Saturday. (For those of you who have talked with me on Skype these last few weeks, you know my internet has been shoddy - I've taken my computer in to get the Ethernet port fixed so I can stop relying on the horribad university wireless network.)
I have been checking things on my phone, but this seemed to necessitate a more lengthy reply that would be torturous on my phone. Again, thank you guys for trusting me, and also thank you for the congratulations haha. I am always open to suggestions, and will do everything I can to help make NIWA better. I don't think much will really change with what I do around here - I'll just be doing more, now. :P
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what is his title? NIWA Chair? CEO?
I was thinking "Coordinator", seems less officious and ruler-ish, and closer to what he'll actually be doing :)
I agree, and I feel "Manager" has the same problem as "Chair" or "CEO": it sounds more like something you'd find in a business: store manager, floor manager, etc. On the other hand, "Coordinator" sounds a bit more informal: they coordinate the rest of us, but it's not like they're signing our paychecks or can fire us.
To use an example, at the bird research station I volunteer at, my boss's title is actually "Coordinator": there's no question that she's got the final say in every decision we make, but she also doesn't pay us for our hard work and obedience. Seeing as this is all voluntary as well, I feel it's more similar to the bird research station's set-up, as opposed to the businesses my parents work at (they've both got Managers overseeing them).
(Also, congrats, Xizor.)
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Coordinator.
[6:21:26 PM] Justin: Coordinator.
[6:21:27 PM] Justin: Done.
[6:21:32 PM] Justin: Let's get on with life.
well said.
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Sounds like a plan. Coordinator it is.
Now do we plan to make this something internally Staff-only, or are we going to notify the rest of NIWA? Will it be something you find out after you join, or will you know ahead of time that this position exists and who occupies it?
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I say we make it external, this way we start to grow as an organization, give a (virtual) face to the organization, help make decisions of the staff public, etc.
There's no need to force everyone to recognize you, but i don't want the to be too big of a separation between how things work for the general-level NIWA and how things work on the staff-level, increasing the learning curve for new staff members.
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That's what I was thinking.
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Yeah, I think this should be an externally visible position. That way, we can actually have a NIWA-specific contact person on the Contact page (http://niwanetwork.org/contact.html), which, as Tacopill toints out, gives a better impression of NIWA as an organization.
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I can't change stuff on the Hub, so someone else will need to take care of that.
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Which email address do you want on there? Or maybe we should create [email protected]? ;)
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Which email address do you want on there? Or maybe we should create [email protected]? ;)
I like that one. Also, i noticed:
Sounds like a plan. Coordinator it is.
Xizor's first decision in the position is his title. Don't know about the rest of you, but i found that hilariously ironic. :laugh:
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I did it on purpose. :p
Also, would it be like a Webmail or an email forward? Cause if it's just a forward, you can use my regular email address [email protected]. If it's Webmail, though, like POP s***, then that'd be cool. It'd help keep important NIWA s*** separate from LoZ.com and Facebook stuff. :P
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I was just gonna do a forward, but if you'd prefer webmail that's fine with me (as long as nobody else has an issue; I know domain-based emails can sometimes be a contentious issue...)
I've sent you the login details :)
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I guess you changed your mind between this post and sending it? lol
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I know I'm late for the party, but congrats, Xizor! :eekdance:
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Hahaha, thanks. :P
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This thread has been moved and locked, and is on display for the general users of NIWA to see a very important behind the scenes discussion.