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NIWA Community => NIWA Discussion => Topic started by: Xizor on December 14, 2010, 10:52:43 AM

Title: Improving NIWA
Post by: Xizor on December 14, 2010, 10:52:43 AM
This thread differs from the suggestion thread in a very important way: this thread is to simply post ideas on how you think the staff can work to improve NIWA in fundamental ways, or to ask questions about things you think are fundamentally important to be answered.

Some basic guidelines for this thread:

- Respect is not an option. We as a staff work very hard to maintain not only NIWA, but our own sites as well. I personally am the Coordinator here, am a Bureaucrat at Zelda Wiki, and own Legendofzelda.com and manage it daily. I have a lot on my plate online, and that's not even counting things outside of the internet. I'm not the only one.
- Do not make demands or ask impatient questions. This goes along with the being respectful thing, but understand that just because you make a post in this thread does not mean that what you said should happen will happen. I imagine that if what you say we should do can't or won't be done, a reason will be given.
- Unless you are on Staff, please do not answer other people's questions. This will just lead to confusion if you end up being wrong, even if you know you know the answer. This thread is more about the Staff communicating with non-Staff than everybody, staff or not, giving ideas together. That's the Suggestions Thread.
- If you are posting about something you think is simply a problem that needs fixing, and have no viable solutions, do not make it an attack. Clearly state what you feel the problem is, and ask how to fix it. Let's try to make sure we only try to tackle one issue at a time.

I'm going to be very clear: If this thread becomes disrespectful, angry, or any form of unproductive or unruly, I will lock it and that will be the end of it. I hope, however, it does not come to that. I doubt it will. I just don't want to hear arguing later if it does, and I am forced to lock. As long as everybody, non-Staff and Staff alike, remain respectful and patient, this thread will be one of the best on the forum.

Now, let's get to talking.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Greenpickle on December 14, 2010, 11:55:44 AM
Respect is not an option.

This is a bit ambiguous, and confused me the first time I read it.

Something I'd like to see happen is for everything NIWA offers to be made easily accessible.  I  mean, there's a load of stuff hidden away in forums here and on various wikis - extensions, templates and the like - and it'd be great to have it on show.  And AFAICT, there still isn't a public list of contact information for those offering whatever skills they have to help NIWA wikis grow.

We need visitors to immediately see how wonderful collaboration between very individual wikis can be.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Axiomist on December 14, 2010, 03:22:44 PM
Not a bad idea for a thread. I want people to answer the question: What changes would you make to NIWA if you were in total control? or something. One thing I had in mind was to find more ways to get non-staff involved in NIWA things.

I had a little year-end idea for a regular editor/niwa member to manage. It shouldn't be done by a wiki's staff, but I was thinking to have something like usual "Viewer's Choice Awards"; in which regulars nominate and vote on things like "Best Main Page", "Wiki of the Year", "Best NIWA template bar", "Best Logo", etc...

I'd expect tons of activity on that and hopefully some inspiration for the wiki staffs to make improvements. Or really get a good idea of what others like from the other wikis. I see it only leading to positive results.

Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Level 3 on December 14, 2010, 10:59:53 PM
I personally would like to know what exactly is potentially barring two wikis of the same series to join (i.e. two Pokemon Wikis)


Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: TurtwigA on December 14, 2010, 11:09:04 PM
By staff, do you mean all wiki staff and forum admins or just forum admins?
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: smashbrother101 on December 15, 2010, 12:00:38 AM
One of the most major aspect I feel that is missing from the wikis is music. I know for a fact that Zelda Wiki has incorporated playable themes in, but what I was refering to is more general. Such as a gaming soundtrack. Considering that music is a major of element of my life, this would be a project that would i'd love to see done, and one which I'd fully take part in... in a non demanding way.  ;D
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on December 15, 2010, 12:13:55 AM
One of the most major aspect I feel that is missing from the wikis is music. I know for a fact that Zelda Wiki has incorporated playable themes in, but what I was refering to is more general. Such as a gaming soundtrack. Considering that music is a major of element of my life, this would be a project that would i'd love to see done, and one which I'd fully take part in... in a non demanding way.  ;D

I'd be careful in recommending music, especially music that is still under copyright. There are a LOT of lawsuits flying around these days over the distribution of copyrighted music without the proper licenses.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: BooDestroyer on December 15, 2010, 03:06:01 AM
If there's one thing to improve with this community, it's that discussions here could stand to be kept more intelligent. It seems most people are so hell bent on editing wiki articles that they're forgetting that they're trying to hold discussions here. One would find a reply to their well-written posts (if so) and expect it to provide just as much insight, yet they see that it's a simple one-liner or a copy-paste from a wiki article (stuff they already know).

And really, if you're looking for discussions that are completely devoid of intelligent thought of any degree, then I suggest trying places like GameFAQs or Smashboards. Heck, MarioWiki's forum is a lot better for that kind of thing, because they're all so blind to everything that falls beyond their already-established preconceptions.

That's only my two cents, though.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Axiomist on December 15, 2010, 04:28:27 AM
I personally would like to know what exactly is potentially barring two wikis of the same series to join (i.e. two Pokemon Wikis)

Pressed for time, but I'm most compelled to answer this one. Most of us agree that having 2 Pokemon Wikis would cause too much trouble. Imagine trying to add an in-article link for Pikachu to your affiliated Pokemon Wiki, some one would have to get bent.

And as far as content goes, both would be encyclopedias covering the same subject matter. There aren't a whole lot of ways to present the same info in the same style. Eventually people would prefer one over the other, and we'll end up watching to see which wiki kills the other.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Xizor on December 15, 2010, 04:33:06 AM
I personally would like to know what exactly is potentially barring two wikis of the same series to join (i.e. two Pokemon Wikis)

The idea that if, just as an example, Bulbapedia worked hard and got into NIWA first, before Pokewikimania (made up name for nonexistent Pokemon wiki), then Bulbapedia obviously expects certain benefits from being a NIWA member. Adding a second Pokemon wiki dilutes those benefits, and only does so for Bulbapedia, while all other wikis continue to enjoy their status as the only wiki for their franchise. To do this against the will of Bulbapedia would be completely irrational and unfair - it's simply about seniority. If Bulbapedia consented to Pokewikimania's inclusion, then the issue is completely negated. It's only to benefit the wiki that got here first. In the event of two wikis from one franchise trying to join at once, or even when another wiki tries to join of the same franchise as a member, we try to encourage merging. This way, ONE source benefits from ALL that both wikis have to offer. It's the best option as far as viewers go.

I have always supported the One-Wiki-Per-Franchise Policy in that it's up to the current member from that franchise. Zelda Wiki would have to give its consent to add a new wiki about Zelda, even if the rest of NIWA wanted to add that member. Super Mario Wiki I believe had to give its consent for Donkey Kong wiki to join - I could be remembering incorrectly. Someone else on staff feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that one.

As far as community goes, NIWA was never intended to govern its members or supplant their communities. One of the big things with Zelda Wiki is that Zelda Fansites operate it, and they each have their own communities that contribute to Zelda Wiki, and Zelda Wiki has its own community as well that does not replace any of those sites' communities. Similarly, Zelda Wiki's community remains distinctly separate from the forum community here. As a whole, though, they are all a part of the grand, all-inclusive "NIWA Community" and that's just the nature of what we've set up. If I had to compare it to a government, and I hate to, I'd say it's like a Confederation. However, we do not govern. NIWA does not enforce anything on its members. The only thing it does is protect its own reputation. Obviously, if NIWA wants someone to do something for "quality of reputation" then there is room for abuse. The simple solution is that we don't abuse it. I mean, how hard is that? ;)

If that didn't make any sense, and I imagine parts of it made no sense, please don't hesitate to ask me to clarify. I've worked 16 hours in the last 48, and got about 2 hours of sleep between the two shifts. :P
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: KidIcarus on December 15, 2010, 09:32:44 PM
Why is the NIWA staff so large?

There are seventy-seven members (http://www.niwanetwork.org/forums/index.php?action=mlist;sort=ID_GROUP;start=0). Judging from the first page, fifty-three percent have ten or less posts; thirty-seven percent have five or less posts; and twenty percent have one or no posts.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Jake on December 15, 2010, 09:45:06 PM
Why is the NIWA staff so large?

There are seventy-seven members (http://www.niwanetwork.org/forums/index.php?action=mlist;sort=ID_GROUP;start=0). Judging from the first page, fifty-three percent have ten or less posts; thirty-seven percent have five or less posts; and twenty percent have one or no posts.
The NIWA staff is comprised of representatives from each wiki. The number of representatives is solely up to the directors of each wiki. As you can tell, the lack of posts from many staff members makes up for the large number that we have. Some staff members will be more active than others, but they're all there just in case they ever have something to say.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: KidIcarus on December 15, 2010, 09:47:43 PM
Okay, let me rephrase my question: What purpose does such a large staff serve?
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: tacopill on December 15, 2010, 10:16:18 PM
My guess would be the nature of our set up. The staff here aren't staff in traditional terms. They are staff on their respective wiki's, and they are allowed to talk with other similar wiki staffers in the staff boards.

It's sometimes easier to get help from another Wiki staffer (someone who is familiar with the software) then it is to ask the regular users who may not no how the software works.

Now, a traditional staff, one established to serve NIWA itself, independent of any wiki may not of been in the designs when the founders originally came up with this; but this doesn't mean getting one is a bad idea. At least to me.

At the same time, i recognized, that we shouldn't make a staff just for the sake of it. In my opinion, We need to identify specific problems in the community, and seek out people who we best think will solve it.

So to summarize my view point, NIWA is doing well as it is. I simply am recommending a way to make it better, to keep us going strong.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Jake on December 15, 2010, 10:16:48 PM
Okay, let me rephrase my question: What purpose does such a large staff serve?
I don't think you can look at the NIWA staff like a traditional forum team. We're more like 'representatives'. We discuss and propose ideas for our wikis, and ensure that the voice of every member wiki is heard. The administrators are the true staff members, as they are the only ones with complete forum moderation tools. We're currently looking into the activity of administrators, and may make some changes at some point in the future.

So in reality, NIWA only has about 9 actual 'staff members'.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on December 15, 2010, 10:20:03 PM
A better question other than "Why do we have so many staff" is "Does the fact that each wiki has different numbers of staff potentially throw off the balance of NIWA?"

I'm not terribly familiar with how matters are handled here at NIWA, but if a matter comes up, and each staff member is given one vote, then certain member wikis would get more say over the matter than others based solely on the fact that they have more staff. Are such matters given a "One vote per wiki" then?
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Level 3 on December 15, 2010, 10:36:58 PM
I personally would like to know what exactly is potentially barring two wikis of the same series to join (i.e. two Pokemon Wikis)

The idea that if, just as an example, Bulbapedia worked hard and got into NIWA first, before Pokewikimania (made up name for nonexistent Pokemon wiki), then Bulbapedia obviously expects certain benefits from being a NIWA member. Adding a second Pokemon wiki dilutes those benefits, and only does so for Bulbapedia, while all other wikis continue to enjoy their status as the only wiki for their franchise. To do this against the will of Bulbapedia would be completely irrational and unfair - it's simply about seniority. If Bulbapedia consented to Pokewikimania's inclusion, then the issue is completely negated. It's only to benefit the wiki that got here first. In the event of two wikis from one franchise trying to join at once, or even when another wiki tries to join of the same franchise as a member, we try to encourage merging. This way, ONE source benefits from ALL that both wikis have to offer. It's the best option as far as viewers go.

I have always supported the One-Wiki-Per-Franchise Policy in that it's up to the current member from that franchise. Zelda Wiki would have to give its consent to add a new wiki about Zelda, even if the rest of NIWA wanted to add that member. Super Mario Wiki I believe had to give its consent for Donkey Kong wiki to join - I could be remembering incorrectly. Someone else on staff feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that one.

As far as community goes, NIWA was never intended to govern its members or supplant their communities. One of the big things with Zelda Wiki is that Zelda Fansites operate it, and they each have their own communities that contribute to Zelda Wiki, and Zelda Wiki has its own community as well that does not replace any of those sites' communities. Similarly, Zelda Wiki's community remains distinctly separate from the forum community here. As a whole, though, they are all a part of the grand, all-inclusive "NIWA Community" and that's just the nature of what we've set up. If I had to compare it to a government, and I hate to, I'd say it's like a Confederation. However, we do not govern. NIWA does not enforce anything on its members. The only thing it does is protect its own reputation. Obviously, if NIWA wants someone to do something for "quality of reputation" then there is room for abuse. The simple solution is that we don't abuse it. I mean, how hard is that? ;)

If that didn't make any sense, and I imagine parts of it made no sense, please don't hesitate to ask me to clarify. I've worked 16 hours in the last 48, and got about 2 hours of sleep between the two shifts. :P

It all makes sense to me, thanks a lot.


A better question other than "Why do we have so many staff" is "Does the fact that each wiki has different numbers of staff potentially throw off the balance of NIWA?"

I'm not terribly familiar with how matters are handled here at NIWA, but if a matter comes up, and each staff member is given one vote, then certain member wikis would get more say over the matter than others based solely on the fact that they have more staff. Are such matters given a "One vote per wiki" then?

I imagine they operate by some majority rule like 2/3 majority if they vote on these things, so that one wiki can't take over, but I doubt it truly works that way.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: smashbrother101 on December 15, 2010, 10:47:59 PM
I'd be careful in recommending music, especially music that is still under copyright. There are a LOT of lawsuits flying around these days over the distribution of copyrighted music without the proper licenses.

My only question then would be why are we allowed to use game material but not the music? It just seems a little bit odd... But if you think it's a bad idea than that's fine by me.  :angel:
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on December 15, 2010, 11:21:04 PM
Even at 2/3 rule, if a group of wikis formed a coalition they could still use undue influence over NIWA based again on their bulk of staff members.

As far as why we can use game material but not play entire songs? Two words: Fair use. We are allowed to use limited game material to demonstrate various points that we are making in the wikis (such as explanation of a character, or explanation of a game mechanic, etc...). I don't think it'd be wise to put NIWA or its wikis in the middle of a legal claptrap just for the sake of "being cool." The wikis don't make enough money to afford a lawyer to fend off lawsuits (and that assumes they make any money at all).
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Axiomist on December 16, 2010, 02:09:57 AM
Well, NIWA is a group we volunteer to be in, so you won't see anyone muscling the votes around. Theoretically it could be done easily by Zelda Wiki and it's large slate of crats, or Bulbapedia could always start some massive rank ups to swing a vote. But why would they?

I'll tell you this much, most of the things we vote on are near unanimous decisions. We discuss things as thoroughly as possible, and good ideas are clearly good ideas. I can't think of any examples of a close vote, but I'm pretty certain we are mature enough to recognize that we don't have a full consensus when a vote is leading by a slim margin. At that point, the issues are likely to be revisited with compromises expected from all involved.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: tacopill on December 16, 2010, 05:46:16 AM
I'd be careful in recommending music, especially music that is still under copyright. There are a LOT of lawsuits flying around these days over the distribution of copyrighted music without the proper licenses.

My only question then would be why are we allowed to use game material but not the music? It just seems a little bit odd... But if you think it's a bad idea than that's fine by me.  :angel:

Lylat Wiki use's Game Music. See Corneria (http://starfoxwiki.org/Corneria)'s Infobox.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Xizor on December 16, 2010, 11:00:42 AM
There is no set number of people from a Wiki we require or cap. If a Wiki wants to have only 2 reps, while another wants to have 10, then whatever. It's about pooling ideas, not politics.

Our staff is really not political. We abhor bureaucracy, and politics. As Ax said, most decisions are unanimous: either something fails and fails hard, or something is a runaway success. Even when we voted on the issue of creating the Coordinator position, we had clear unity to create the job, and then between the three people who were nominated, I was the clear choice, even if not 100%. And since then, I've made my duty here to not only do what those who voted for me expected and wanted, but to reassure those who didn't vote for me that I won't let them down. It's not about politics, it's just about NIWA. If Zelda Wiki somehow managed to comprise 33% of all NIWA Staffers, then it wouldn't matter. NIWA doesn't govern its wikis. It doesn't enforce anything. ZW cares about NIWA, and all that means is that their caring would get heard a little louder. Even then, that's part of what we have the Coordinator for. In a clear event of contentious bickering, I could step in and take control of a situation.

I feel like it's assumed we're incompetent or something.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: tacopill on December 17, 2010, 05:45:00 PM
Out of curiosity, if i may i ask, is it NIWA's opinion or ZW's to "abhor bureaucracy"? 

Never mind, i got my answer.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Xizor on December 17, 2010, 10:34:19 PM
I'm pretty sure it's any sensible staff member's opinion to abhor pointless bureaucracy. Effective bureaucracy is simple and only implemented when it's needed.

ZW actually functions very differently from NIWA, and very few of its guiding principles are able to be applied here. Afterall...it's a Wiki.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Archaic on December 18, 2010, 05:21:09 PM
Even at 2/3 rule, if a group of wikis formed a coalition they could still use undue influence over NIWA based again on their bulk of staff members.

Just to further clarify the answers to this...one of the rules established at the very beginning of NIWA was that no member wiki could be forced to participate in something against its will. If all but one wiki voted to do something, that wiki is still perfectly within its rights to opt out of the process. Heck, even the format of the links back to NIWA and the other NIWA wikis isn't specified.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on December 19, 2010, 12:15:33 AM
Even at 2/3 rule, if a group of wikis formed a coalition they could still use undue influence over NIWA based again on their bulk of staff members.

Just to further clarify the answers to this...one of the rules established at the very beginning of NIWA was that no member wiki could be forced to participate in something against its will. If all but one wiki voted to do something, that wiki is still perfectly within its rights to opt out of the process. Heck, even the format of the links back to NIWA and the other NIWA wikis isn't specified.

Okay, that allays my concerns. The rules/setup for NIWA aren't very clear, and I'm slightly paranoid about such matters (based on previous experience in other communities).
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Malake256 on December 19, 2010, 04:53:38 AM
From the way you've been saying that Maxite, NIWA isn't at all like your former communities lol. We're less top down power and more bottom up. And here's your chance to voice a specific concern to improve NIWA. I would agree that there should be easily accessible information about NIWA.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: KidIcarus on December 19, 2010, 02:22:01 PM
My guess would be the nature of our set up. The staff here aren't staff in traditional terms. They are staff on their respective wiki's, and they are allowed to talk with other similar wiki staffers in the staff boards.

It's sometimes easier to get help from another Wiki staffer (someone who is familiar with the software) then it is to ask the regular users who may not no how the software works.
Okay, let me rephrase my question: What purpose does such a large staff serve?
I don't think you can look at the NIWA staff like a traditional forum team. We're more like 'representatives'. We discuss and propose ideas for our wikis, and ensure that the voice of every member wiki is heard.

I understand the need for a staff board; I know that some plans need to be kept a secret and that discussions on forum moderation should stay private. However, from what I hear, many of the discussions going on in the staff board involve wikis in general. A better place for this would be, in my opinion, the Wiki References Board. There's no need to hide helpful information from potential member wikis.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Jake on December 19, 2010, 02:51:50 PM
There isn't very much talk on the staff board about improving wikis or wiki help in general. As you said, those are the kind of topics we like to see on the reference board. Discussions about wikis usually involve server issues, information/graphic requests (for the main page), or emails from potential wiki members. We're not hiding anything important from members hoping to start up wikis of their own.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Cipriano 119 on December 19, 2010, 07:33:33 PM
Cool discussion going on so far. I understand that NIWA is more or less a blanket for the many wikis who wish to get tucked in at night (aww), but I always thought there should at least be some minor connectivity between them outside of overlapping users, N Wiki, and link exchanges. I've already brought this up in the Skype chat: what if say I showed a legitimate editing and knowledgeable interest on WikiBound. Wouldn't it make sense in this case, since I'm part of the staff on another wiki, that I would be made autopatrol immediately on WikiBound? Of course I used WikiBound as an example, but this is to be taken generally. I don't see why that would be an issue, especially since NIWA knows who is and who is not legitimate in the system when it comes down to editing.

If this could be made a NIWA-wide policy, that's a step towards a higher connectivity between the wikis in the system.

And for the record, I know relatively nothing about the Mother/Earthbound series. Sorry Tacopill, looks like I'm not going to be coming over anytime soon! :( ha
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Moydow on December 19, 2010, 07:42:56 PM
Some wikis have an "ambassador" usergroup, which is set on administrators from other wikis. It gives autopatrol and the ability to edit MediaWiki: namespace pages.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Cipriano 119 on December 19, 2010, 07:45:06 PM
Nice! I think I heard about that on the chat. How about all wikis have that! :)
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: tacopill on December 19, 2010, 08:39:49 PM
It's fine, we understand.  :'(.

But yea, the Ambassador system works well, since it allows admins from other wiki's to help a given wiki (in more ways than just editing), but doesn't undermine the wiki's own staff.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on December 19, 2010, 09:04:39 PM
Here's a question that I've often pondered, but never really got clearly explained:
What is NIWA?
I understand it's a sort of affiliation of sorts, but is that all that it is?
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Malake256 on December 19, 2010, 09:54:07 PM
It's a garden. Haha.
But seriously, you can call it an affiliate system. That really is what it is. The problem with calling it that is that so many websites nowadays have "affiliates" that they've only talked to once. It seems the word "affiliate" has been diminished by simply living around the interwebs. NIWA as a whole is a cooperative project between the wikis to better each other and to strive for an system of wikis entirely created by and for the fans. Unlike previous wiki clusters where really and truly the object is infinite profit, NIWA looks to satisfy and engage fans to collaborate to create and expand these wikis. Eh. That's a snippet of what NIWA is I guess. Our manifesto should be revised.. soon.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Xizor on December 20, 2010, 10:11:48 AM
The thing, Cip, is that what you're saying has to be voluntary. All wikis could choose to participate as such, but they never would have to. That's the key here. NIWA does not enforce anything.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Axiomist on December 20, 2010, 03:07:41 PM
Here's a question that I've often pondered, but never really got clearly explained:
What is NIWA?
I understand it's a sort of affiliation of sorts, but is that all that it is?

Its a little harder to tell what it is now. But if you were around at the creation, you'd have noticed some things about the four pre-existing members that have been heavily improved. Thing is, we stuck to our wikis and fandoms since say ZeldaUniverse Forums offered a place for all of our Zelda discussions, ZeldaWiki offered a place for all of our wiki editing, and so on for each community. With this organic, wild growth plan, each wiki specialized in specific areas and underwhelmed in some others. When we first started talking, we dealt with promoting our wikis to a wider Nintendo audience, tech issues that each wiki was dealing with, and suggested new ideas to one another.

Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: leem01 on December 20, 2010, 07:09:06 PM
On the music idea, ACW also uses music in our articles as well as uploading them on our YouTube channel.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Archaic on December 21, 2010, 03:52:55 PM
It's a garden. Haha.
But seriously, you can call it an affiliate system. That really is what it is. The problem with calling it that is that so many websites nowadays have "affiliates" that they've only talked to once. It seems the word "affiliate" has been diminished by simply living around the interwebs. NIWA as a whole is a cooperative project between the wikis to better each other and to strive for an system of wikis entirely created by and for the fans. Unlike previous wiki clusters where really and truly the object is infinite profit, NIWA looks to satisfy and engage fans to collaborate to create and expand these wikis. Eh. That's a snippet of what NIWA is I guess. Our manifesto should be revised.. soon.
Perhaps the best way I could describe NIWA, without using the affiliate term (since NIWA has affiliates in addition to actual members, so that can be confusing) would be to resurrect a term that hasn't been used on the internet much for the last decade.

Basically....NIWA can be thought of as an advanced and enhanced version of the webrings of old. Much more closer knit than any of them were, and with a lot more co-operation, but the core idea is basically the same.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: tacopill on December 21, 2010, 07:54:13 PM
It's a garden. Haha.
But seriously, you can call it an affiliate system. That really is what it is. The problem with calling it that is that so many websites nowadays have "affiliates" that they've only talked to once. It seems the word "affiliate" has been diminished by simply living around the interwebs. NIWA as a whole is a cooperative project between the wikis to better each other and to strive for an system of wikis entirely created by and for the fans. Unlike previous wiki clusters where really and truly the object is infinite profit, NIWA looks to satisfy and engage fans to collaborate to create and expand these wikis. Eh. That's a snippet of what NIWA is I guess. Our manifesto should be revised.. soon.
Perhaps the best way I could describe NIWA, without using the affiliate term (since NIWA has affiliates in addition to actual members, so that can be confusing) would be to resurrect a term that hasn't been used on the internet much for the last decade.

Basically....NIWA can be thought of as an advanced and enhanced version of the webrings of old. Much more closer knit than any of them were, and with a lot more co-operation, but the core idea is basically the same.

Ok, that makes more sense to me than some of the other descriptions I've heard of.

Personally, i never saw the Web-ring as a good idea, since it only linked to 2 other sites at a time (and sometimes even had a random button), and it got rather boring after a while. I am glad to see we have more of a web-web, with each member connecting to the other members; and that we have a center to help focus it.

Which means, topology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topology)-wise, we currently have a 17-orthoplex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplex#Symmetric_graphs_of_regular_simplices), rather than just a Heptadecagon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heptadecagon).
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: BrandedOne on December 21, 2010, 10:26:00 PM
Which means, topology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topology)-wise, we currently have a 17-orthoplex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplex#Symmetric_graphs_of_regular_simplices), rather than just a Heptadecagon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heptadecagon).

Who's the seventeenth member? NIWA itself?
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: tacopill on December 22, 2010, 12:02:51 AM
Which means, topology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topology)-wise, we currently have a 17-orthoplex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplex#Symmetric_graphs_of_regular_simplices), rather than just a Heptadecagon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heptadecagon).

Who's the seventeenth member? NIWA itself?

Yeap. Included in all the links to all the other wikis, i usually see a link back to niwa-itself.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Xizor on December 22, 2010, 01:58:43 AM
But NIWA is still only the sum of its parts, not a separate part altogether.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: tacopill on December 22, 2010, 02:21:40 AM
But NIWA is still only the sum of its parts, not a separate part altogether.

Ok, now i'm confused again.

If NIWA wasn't a separates part altogether, we wouldn't have a hub to link to. or Forums to post on.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Volatile Dweevil on December 22, 2010, 05:31:49 AM
I'm pretty sure that what he means is that the hub and forums are separate parts, but they are not NIWA until the other parts (the wikis) are added.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: SnorlaxMonster on December 22, 2010, 09:47:37 AM
I would rather think that the hub/forum/etc. is in the center of the simplex.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: tacopill on December 22, 2010, 03:11:04 PM
I'm pretty sure that what he means is that the hub and forums are separate parts, but they are not NIWA until the other parts (the wikis) are added.

Ok, That makes more sense. So the idea of NIWA is separates than the hub and the forums.

Now, i am curious: does this mean the forums represent a separate node on the simplex than the hub page? hm....

See Network topology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_topology), if anyone are not familiar with my use of the term "Node".


I would rather think that the hub/forum/etc. is in the center of the simplex.

I personally will agree with you. But don't forget, There exists at least one connection between each wiki that doesn't go through the hub. It sort of complicates things.

I'd draw a map of this, but by the time i was finished, we might have a new member. ;D


To end my post, i'd like to suggest NIWA's next Topology:
[spoiler]
 (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/Tesseract.gif)
[/spoiler]

;D
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Moydow on December 22, 2010, 04:20:08 PM
I would rather think that the hub/forum/etc. is in the center of the simplex.

I personally will agree with you. But don't forget, There exists at least one connection between each wiki that doesn't go through the hub. It sort of complicates things.

This is true. Take, for example, StrategyWiki. Before joining NIWA, we had partnerships with three members of NIWA: Bulbapedia, ZeldaWiki.org, and WiKirby. See here (http://strategywiki.org/wiki/StrategyWiki:Guide/Partnerships) for our Partnerships page. We retained those partnerships when we joined NIWA, and I believe there are plans to make such arrangements with the other members of NIWA.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Xizor on December 23, 2010, 10:55:41 AM
You guys are making this way too complicated. Seriously.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: KidIcarus on December 23, 2010, 10:35:19 PM
I have a suggestion. Maybe we should make the NIWA Coordinator and Forum Administrator position a rotating position. I don't mean to point any fingers at anyone, but this would prevent any hypothetical user in that position from ever becoming too controlling or arrogant. Furthermore, it could open NIWA to new and exciting ideas. Just imagine how NIWA's growth could end if a closed-minded coordinator were in charge for too long. Again, this is all hypothetical, and I don't mean to point any fingers at anyone...
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: tacopill on December 23, 2010, 11:09:22 PM
You guys are making this way too complicated. Seriously.

It's what i do.  ;D.

I have a suggestion. Maybe we should make the NIWA Coordinator and Forum Administrator position a rotating position. I don't mean to point any fingers at anyone, but this would prevent any hypothetical user in that position from ever becoming too controlling or arrogant. Furthermore, it could open NIWA to new and exciting ideas. Just imagine how NIWA's growth could end if a closed-minded coordinator were in charge for too long. Again, this is all hypothetical, and I don't mean to point any fingers at anyone...

I like this suggestion. Rotation of a position is very helpful. Helps Keeps it fresh, ensures new ideas are always coming in. (Not that they aren't now. I just want to keep it going :) )
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Miles of SmashWiki on December 23, 2010, 11:34:03 PM
So long as the position stays stable, moving it around could have benefits.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on December 24, 2010, 05:53:56 PM
I like the idea of rotating positions. From my experience, that seems to work better than having person constantly in charge.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Xizor on December 25, 2010, 09:18:17 AM
Given that we created the position about two months ago, it's a bit soon to discuss getting rid of me. ;)

(A joke, in case someone's typing up a raging reply at this very moment. Let's keep ideas flowing.)
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on December 25, 2010, 05:49:43 PM
Having the position rotate once every year or two wouldn't be bad. Or we could just have a two-term limit, with each term being a year, and if the staff think the incumbent is doing good after the first year they can grant them another year to continue with their work, although that might be overly complicated for NIWA.
Lots of things that can be done there to try and get new blood in, but still keep competent leadership.

Moving onto a next subject, and it relates to the DAWN thread:

I've gotten to know a decent amount of staff members since I've joined NIWA, so I know how they work. I haven't met everyone, but I will agree that in general the staff aren't plotting behind the scenes to try and take over the internet, and that they are generally competent.

However, my main concern is the point that was brought up about "secrecy", or the perceived imbalance of secrecy. While I can't give an opinion on what the balance is--and even though the staff can give an opinion it can't be demonstrated--my honest guess is that the problem isn't with secrecy, but with lack of clear communication.

A lot of confusing or misleading or misrepresented information is on these boards. There's also a decent amount of misinformation as well. The lack of communication to clear up these blunders is most likely what contributes to a lot of the angst and perception that "the staff are incompetent or power hungry, or that there is an imbalance of secrecy."

One recent issue that came up was presented as if a simplistic wiki was going to be made a part of NIWA in some official capacity, and it drove me bonkers (my apologies to all parties involve who I may have offended) because I believed that the decision was in the final process of being approved. It might have been best to move the thread to the Staff section, or for someone to come in and say "This matter has not yet been decided, the staff are still looking over it."

A bit of communication (or some moderation) would have been really effective in reducing confusion for me and other parties. For my part, I will now start bringing up information that has unverified legitimacy to trusted parties and get their input on the matter before I start making critical remarks, which will most likely be sent directly to the appropriate parties instead of in threads.

Do I expect this communication issue to be solved overnight? No. But I do hope that strides will be taken to promote clear communication channels between the public and staff so that issues of miscommunication can be abated if not completely avoided.

Unfortunately, from what I have gathered, NIWA doesn't have a lot of policies or procedures, so I'm not sure I can give a suggestion for how to directly correct the problem, but my best guess would be to:
1. Set up relevant communication policies. This includes setting up proper channels for fielding questions about information from the public, as well as disseminating official information to the public.
2. Either have every staff member informed (or "trained") on how to handle basic public relations, or give the job to certain staff members who can be more focused on the issue. The latter would also provide more clarity to the public in who to go for more information on topics. I will acknowledge that a lot of staff members are busy with other projects, but if a few could dedicate a few minutes a day to answering questions that would be a wonderful start.
3. As a last resort, set up an official "Public Relations Coordinator" position to coordinate communication channels so that there is a dedicated staff to the issue. This idea is likely to be excessive for NIWA, but if set up properly could be very useful in not just giving clear information out to the general public, but in helping to coordinate projects with the member wikis and work with affiliates or interested parties.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Nintendoguy1 on December 25, 2010, 08:32:26 PM
OK, I think that this is similar to something I read on Bulbanews earlier today.

The Bulbanews article said that the elemental monkeys names were accidentally leaked. Now, the accidental leaking was not confirmed by Nintendo and is just something put out by one of their commercials accidentally. Now, that is similar to a situation where a member of the NIWA staff puts out information into a thread. The information could be true, it is probably true but it is not confirmed true.

HOWEVER if Nintendo now went out to a press contest and outright said "these are the official names", the information would be confirmed. But Nintendo hasn't, it's still unconfirmed and just speculated. Just like with NIWA, if the NIWA staff outright tell you that something is happening; it is confirmed. But if they mention it in public discussions, it is only speculation.

Basically, take the things we say with a grain of salt.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Xizor on December 25, 2010, 08:35:15 PM
"Public Relations Coordinator" What do you think I am? :P

I agree, though, that there has been misinformation, but with such a large and often chaotic project, it was unavoidable. We're reigning it in. Remember that NIWA only started in February, guys, and underwent a massive reform effort, mostly from July through October, but that still continues today.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Jake on December 25, 2010, 08:55:49 PM
Quote
One recent issue that came up was presented as if a simplistic wiki was going to be made a part of NIWA in some official capacity, and it drove me bonkers (my apologies to all parties involve who I may have offended) because I believed that the decision was in the final process of being approved. It might have been best to move the thread to the Staff section, or for someone to come in and say "This matter has not yet been decided, the staff are still looking over it."
I assume that was directed at this post (http://www.niwanetwork.org/forums/index.php?topic=698.msg13607#msg13607)? I didn't find it necessary to state specifically that "we're still looking into it", but if it pleases you than I will be sure to do so in the future. In my defense, I did clearly state that the topic was about a member request. By definition, a request is "an act of asking politely or formally for something". In no way did I imply that we were in any specific stage of negotiation with the wiki. I'd really appreciate it if you could stop using your own assumptions against the NIWA staff. (Your post even states that it was your own belief.)

Let's base things on the facts, shall we? Many of your other points make a lot of sense, so don't think that I'm just trying to disagree with you outright.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on December 26, 2010, 12:44:36 AM
I'm not blaming any single staff members for failure to clear up information. There is no one person who deserves the blame, and I don't think it'd be appropriate to assign blame anyways. The first poster, who is not staff, made it appear through the thread title that "I'm in", and the first post made it appear on first impressions that his wiki was being let into NIWA.
The ambiguity lies in the "I'm in" thread title, and the first post, which nobody really cared to directly address. If they had, there would have been a comment to the effect of "Nobody is "in" just yet, we're still looking into the matter." No such elaboration or correction was made.

As far as bashing the staff based on what is and isn't fact, that is exactly the problem I am trying to point out. If I can't tell what is and isn't fact in these cases, then there is a problem that needs to be addressed. While yes, I should have asked for clarification if I had questions, it is not unreasonable to assume what is posted on these boards is factual to an extent, and to base comments and critique on those assumptions. I'm just a common member; I don't have access to the staff boards, so I don't know how far along you are in the negotiations. I have to make a judgment based on how things are worded, and the phrase "I'm in" is most certainly not commonly used to indicate that it's the starting phase of a request.

I do not wish to assign blame to anyone in particular for these problems, as I think everyone carries some blame for these problems. I am not seeking to further push any blame, I am asking that these problems be addressed and fixed so that they do not happen again.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: tacopill on December 26, 2010, 07:51:48 PM
I'm not blaming any single staff members for failure to clear up information. There is no one person who deserves the blame, and I don't think it'd be appropriate to assign blame anyways. The first poster, who is not staff, made it appear through the thread title that "I'm in", and the first post made it appear on first impressions that his wiki was being let into NIWA.
The ambiguity lies in the "I'm in" thread title, and the first post, which nobody really cared to directly address. If they had, there would have been a comment to the effect of "Nobody is "in" just yet, we're still looking into the matter." No such elaboration or correction was made.

As far as bashing the staff based on what is and isn't fact, that is exactly the problem I am trying to point out. If I can't tell what is and isn't fact in these cases, then there is a problem that needs to be addressed. While yes, I should have asked for clarification if I had questions, it is not unreasonable to assume what is posted on these boards is factual to an extent, and to base comments and critique on those assumptions. I'm just a common member; I don't have access to the staff boards, so I don't know how far along you are in the negotiations. I have to make a judgment based on how things are worded, and the phrase "I'm in" is most certainly not commonly used to indicate that it's the starting phase of a request.

I do not wish to assign blame to anyone in particular for these problems, as I think everyone carries some blame for these problems. I am not seeking to further push any blame, I am asking that these problems be addressed and fixed so that they do not happen again.

Maxite, please keep in mind, that you are under the same or similar conditions that we are. This is a text- and image-only environment and the tone or attitude you are thinking or speaking in your posts is not always what they are read in. 

For me personally, i've learned it helps to put visual markers to help clearify what i mean in my text. If i am making a joke in a serious thread, i place something there to say "This is a joke", ":P", etc. If i am making a statement that sounds like it could come from an official decision maker of the staff, i do my best to put in "I", "In my opinion" and/or a disclaimer like "I am not an elected or appointed representative of NIWA".

I don't know how truely effective it is. But it seems to work, since outcomes i fear of misinterpretions of my statements don't seem to come to pass.

Just a suggestion.  :)
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on December 26, 2010, 08:39:15 PM
I'll keep that in mind to try and keep my messages clear.

The problem is that a lot of what others say isn't clear, and if I am to participate in this community I would have to ask for clarifications on a lot of things before continuing, or make a best guess and hope I'm right.

Moving on to my next question:
Since I've seen this brought up a few times and never really seen it explained: What are "NIWA's interests"? One of the few details I know about it is that it includes helping out developing wikis, and working on expanding the member wikis.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: SuperAlpaca on December 26, 2010, 09:15:30 PM
Another good one is  :eekdance:.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: tacopill on December 26, 2010, 10:59:04 PM
I'll keep that in mind to try and keep my messages clear.

The problem is that a lot of what others say isn't clear, and if I am to participate in this community I would have to ask for clarifications on a lot of things before continuing, or make a best guess and hope I'm right.

Moving on to my next question:
Since I've seen this brought up a few times and never really seen it explained: What are "NIWA's interests"? One of the few details I know about it is that it includes helping out developing wikis, and working on expanding the member wikis.

Sounds good.

To answer your next question, this is what i see: What the Wikis want. NIWA isn't some facility you are required to visit or oblige with. Examples:
* If WikiBound wants to hold a Smash Bros. tournament, They can come on here and see if Lylat Wiki, DK Wiki and Smash Wiki would be interested in helping.
* If AC Wiki is looking to improve their infoboxes, they can come here and ask our template experts on how to improve them code wise, and ask the animal crossing fans on how to improved them Kirby-information wise.
* If Lylat Wiki is attacked by new spammers, Metroid Wiki can come in and help fix it, due to our staff being at work or school or something.
* And best of all: Nintendo Wiki. First thought of by the memeber of Mario Wiki (RAP) and Bulbapedia's webmaster agreeding to host it. And since then it's been helped out by members of Lylat Wiki, Bulbapedia, WiKirby, ZeldaWiki and Many others.

With this mentality, NIWA isn't stepping on people's toes, going into their wiki saying "You should do this and that". NIWA can recommend something, but no wiki's are forced to abide by it.

So, in my opinion, rather than think of it as "What are "NIWA's Interests'?", think about it this way. "What are the interests of the Wiki's and in what way can NIWA help them succeed?".

This doesn't mean that NIWA can't have it's own goals; it does. It just means, that we must meet the needs of the Wiki first. Ot at least not be harmful to any wiki.

If NIWA wishes to hold a Template designing completion, and it would be beneficial to the wiki's that participate, then we will have one. If however no wiki's think it would benefit them, then it won't happen.

Feel free to still recommend ideas to improve NIWA as a whole. I would like to see it become more than just a "Bloated Affiliate system". I'd like to see it be able act and staffed on it's own. But these ideas are just my own, and what i think would be best for NIWA.


Another good one is  :eekdance:.

Yes! that's a good one as well.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Nintendoguy1 on December 26, 2010, 11:04:43 PM
NIWA doesn't make people do anything, NIWA just lets users communicate with eachother. We don't enforce policies, we don't require actions. You just do what you want, and NIWA makes it possible.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Xizor on December 27, 2010, 01:10:29 AM
NIWA's only real true interest is to make sure that can always happen.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Naesala on December 27, 2010, 02:48:14 AM
Is there any way to have a search engine on the hub that would cover all the wikis?
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Jake on December 27, 2010, 02:58:32 AM
Is there any way to have a search engine on the hub that would cover all the wikis?
That's planned, and it will be coming along with the redesigned main page. :)
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on December 29, 2010, 08:10:43 AM
As I understand things, NIWA is a complicated affiliates system. It has no real will of its own, which makes me wonder if Xizor has any actual powers beyond acting as a moderator for discussion. I would like to propose the following:

That NIWA be set up as a centralized judiciary for the wikis.

1. In the event of interwiki disputes, the disputers could bring their case to NIWA, and the NIWA Coordinator would act as judge.
2. Should the member wikis so desire, conflicts within their wikis could be brought to NIWA for hearing.

This may sound absurd at first, but since NIWA is so diverse it would be possible to get people who don't have any strong feelings towards any of the members (this may not be possible to do internally in some of the smaller member wikis), and thus be able to offer more impartiality on the subject. It would also give the NIWA Coordinator formal powers to act as a judge and a mediator, since at the moment I am not aware of if the member wikis have to follow any advisements made by the NIWA Coordinator.

Just a random thought.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Nintendoguy1 on December 29, 2010, 08:42:25 AM
Maybe, as long as every wiki involved agrees to have the mediation.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Xizor on December 30, 2010, 01:14:38 AM
As I understand things, NIWA is a complicated affiliates system. It has no real will of its own, which makes me wonder if Xizor has any actual powers beyond acting as a moderator for discussion.

Wonder no more, for you are mostly correct. My only real "power" is that in the event of deadlocked staff discussion, I was given the authority to have the final say, which does give me considerable power in certain situations. I'm also the "face of NIWA" and I generally am here to just guide NIWA where it needs to go. We chose the title "Coordinator" because it denoted that I, for lack of a better word, coordinate actions and discussions, but because it does not connote dictatorship. I am not "in charge" of NIWA by any means. That is, unless somehow every wiki decided to give the position that kind of power. I personally would not want the position, with me or without me, having that much power. It wouldn't serve NIWA as well that way.

As far as your proposal, there's nothing stopping a particular member wiki from doing such a thing. However, we've had relatively little conflict, almost no conflict, even, between wikis. Between certain staff members in a particularly heated discussion sometimes, yes, but there have been no wiki feuds. If there were, then it would be up to those wikis to come to NIWA. Obviously, in the event that a feud begins affecting the rest of NIWA's members, then the rest of the members could discuss how to resolve the issue, or if no agreement can be reached, how to best let a wiki (or wikis) bow out of NIWA with as little harm as possible to all. I don't anticipate it ever getting that far, because we have taken every effort to make cooperation almost impossible to ignore. We all joined NIWA wanting to help each other and ourselves, so there is no real worries in that department. :)

As it is, though, I have no power, and I cannot force anyone into anything. However, the vast majority of staff members wanted me for the job, and so I feel that my voice is listened to with great consideration. So regardless of the fact that I have no power, I certainly have influence, and ultimately, the only difference is that influence is granted, whereas power is generally assumed. The reason the position works without the power is because we wanted it. We created it specifically because we needed a "leader" type role, and this is what we came up with.

Perhaps, pending a quick staff discussion on the matter, we can shed light on the way the role functions by publishing the topic in which we discussed creating it (locked, of course). I'll see what they all have to say on it.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on January 01, 2011, 05:12:42 AM
A thought occurs to me:
Create a "NIWA Archives" subboard, so that important or historic threads can be placed there. Approximately half of the stickied threads in the NIWA General section are no longer of current interest, and I'm not a big fan of seeing half a page of stickied threads before I find the actual active topics.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: tacopill on January 01, 2011, 08:08:53 AM
A thought occurs to me:
Create a "NIWA Archives" subboard, so that important or historic threads can be placed there. Approximately half of the stickied threads in the NIWA General section are no longer of current interest, and I'm not a big fan of seeing half a page of stickied threads before I find the actual active topics.

This sounds like a good idea to me.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Nintendoguy1 on January 01, 2011, 08:12:05 AM
A thought occurs to me:
Create a "NIWA Archives" subboard, so that important or historic threads can be placed there. Approximately half of the stickied threads in the NIWA General section are no longer of current interest, and I'm not a big fan of seeing half a page of stickied threads before I find the actual active topics.

This sounds like a good idea to me.
All the forums I know have an archives subboard, where they stick all threads that are dead/outdated. I think it's a great idea!
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on January 06, 2011, 11:49:29 PM
No idea on where else to post this, so I'll just post this here:

Has NIWA, or NIWA members considered hosting a panel at conventions? If a wiki has members going to a convention that has panels, it'd be a good way to get the word out. I wouldn't recommend doing a panel on "Independent wikis" or anything similar, but a panel based on a series would be nice, and then throw in a plug for both the relevant member wiki and NIWA as a whole.

A good idea might be a general Nintendo panel, covering its history, its people, and the history of notable franchises. That would have a decent chance of not only getting approved, but also of gathering an audience.

I'm going to at least two cons this year, and I've hosted panels before. They aren't too much work to setup.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Volatile Dweevil on January 07, 2011, 02:55:35 AM
I don't really go to conventions, but it sounds like a great idea
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Xizor on January 07, 2011, 11:35:05 AM
Both Comic Con and E3 are in Southern California, where I'm from. I'd love to do something like this, but I'm not sure how possible this really is outside of just dreaming?
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on January 07, 2011, 05:23:21 PM
The two cons I am for-certain going to are Anime Central (ACen (http://www.acen.org)) in Chicago, IL and AnimeIowa (http://www.animeiowa.com) in Coralville, IA. They're both anime conventions, but both conventions have lots of Nintendo-based cosplayers.
Last year at AI there was a guy who was a Magikarp fishermen (the guy who always had 6 Magikarp), and that doesn't count lots of other Pokemon, Super Mario Bros, and Zelda cosplayers. There is a good amount of interest in Nintendo at these conventions.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Naesala on January 07, 2011, 09:45:11 PM
could we have a "serious discussion" bored?
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Xizor on January 07, 2011, 09:49:58 PM
You mean a board to have debates and such here on the NIWA forums? It's possible. I was actually just thinking about that today.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Naesala on January 07, 2011, 09:51:46 PM
You mean a board to have debates and such here on the NIWA forums? It's possible. I was actually just thinking about that today.

Or religions and political topics, with stricter mods of course.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Tina on January 07, 2011, 10:05:57 PM
The two cons I am for-certain going to are Anime Central (ACen (http://www.acen.org)) in Chicago, IL

Oh hey. I'm going there this year too, although I think I would be way too shy to host a panel for NIWA. :V
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Xizor on January 07, 2011, 10:40:35 PM
A Serious Board is possible. We'll see!

As for a panel, what would this panel even discuss? Who would do it?
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on January 08, 2011, 12:27:22 AM
To quote from my original post on the panel idea: "A good idea might be a general Nintendo panel, covering its history, its people, and the history of notable franchises. That would have a decent chance of not only getting approved, but also of gathering an audience."

Throw in some relevant plugs at the appropriate times (for more information, or to participate in further discussion of the series, go to <name of relevant wiki>), and we could easily put in a plug that way. Or put in a plug saying that the panel is being "hosted by members of NIWA." in the description of what the panel is about.

As far as holding one at ACen, I could host one. If anyone else is going to ACen and wants the chance at getting a free badge (since panelists don't have to pay for their badges), it could work out.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: tacopill on January 08, 2011, 02:54:04 AM
related to the panel discussion, we could have a booth where we hand out flyers and pamphlets about NIWA and the member wiki's. And if someone brings a computer and a projector, they can have people surf around the wiki's, showing off each wiki's individual look, style and such.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on January 08, 2011, 03:38:36 AM
related to the panel discussion, we could have a booth where we hand out flyers and pamphlets about NIWA and the member wiki's. And if someone brings a computer and a projector, they can have people surf around the wiki's, showing off each wiki's individual look, style and such.
For ACen? That'd be a no go. You can hand out fliers and pamphlets all you want, but if you want to set up a booth you have to pay $$$ to do so. Not sure of the cost, but I'd estimate over $100. Probably be better to put that money towards server upgrades than wasting it on a booth for 3 days at a con.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Naesala on January 08, 2011, 03:41:13 PM
A Serious Board is possible. We'll see!


A forum game bored would be nice.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: TurtwigA on January 08, 2011, 03:56:26 PM
A Serious Board is possible. We'll see!


A forum game bored would be nice.

I thought one was being made
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: tacopill on January 09, 2011, 04:34:31 AM
related to the panel discussion, we could have a booth where we hand out flyers and pamphlets about NIWA and the member wiki's. And if someone brings a computer and a projector, they can have people surf around the wiki's, showing off each wiki's individual look, style and such.
For ACen? That'd be a no go. You can hand out fliers and pamphlets all you want, but if you want to set up a booth you have to pay $$$ to do so. Not sure of the cost, but I'd estimate over $100. Probably be better to put that money towards server upgrades than wasting it on a booth for 3 days at a con.

Not specifically for that con; for any con. I was actually going to volunteer to do this later on this year, if i am approved to do so.
 
A Serious Board is possible. We'll see!



A forum game bored would be nice.

I thought one was being made

One is in the making......but i am waiting for something to occur to remind someone to implement it.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on January 10, 2011, 09:08:01 PM
A Simple Plea for Generalization

People are lazy: They don't like to take more effort than necessary to do what they want. While there are exceptions, this is generally true. People's laziness has helped result in the growth of giant search engines because they don't want to type in a URL when they can just search for it on Google. It has resulted in eBay and Amazon becoming the shopping malls of the internet, because most everything you could want can be found on those two sites. People's laziness has even spilled into real life, with the gigantic growth of Walmart eating up smaller businesses. People want to get to their relevant information, and get to it quickly.

I bring this point up now because it will start affecting us at some point in the future, and already has. Nintendo Wiki already has one wiki that plays to this rule of laziness: Mario Wiki. Their broad and expansive coverage makes them a one-stop shop for anything and everything relating to Mario and Mario subfranchises and even related franchises. Donkey Kong Wiki, Smash Wiki, and even the newer and still developing Yoshipedia all to some extent fall under the shadow that Mario Wiki casts. Does this mean that Mario Wiki is being overzealous in their coverage? No, on the contrary, they are being smart: They are being as broad and as expansive as possible to make them a one-stop shop, which will benefit their community more than if they were more specialized.

This isn't to say that specialized communities can't be successful, they just have to work harder at it. In a fight for eyeballs and editors, the wiki that stands out the most will be the one that most likely wins, and a wiki that has a bigger footprint has better odds of standing out more than one with a smaller footprint. Any online community needs to have the public not only be able to find them, but also want to go to them. Having specialized content means that you can tailor the information to be most useful to that audience, so they want to come back to you and not other sites. Still, that isn't to say that a generalist wiki can't have specialized content that people would find just as useful as if they want to the specialist one. We also can't ignore the facts that specialist wikis are less able to find editors to contribute to their growth simply because they are more specialized in their focus, whereas a more generalist wiki can easily find people to contribute because there are so many more areas to contribute to.

If NIWA is to best promote Nintendo, and to best promote its members, then there should be some form of encouragement for more generalized wikis to help draw attention to NIWA and its more specialized and smaller members. Expansive sites like Bulbapedia, Mario Wiki, and Zelda Wiki are invaluable assets to NIWA, and we should be promoting more sites like those to join. It may even be time to seriously start considering expanding into third party franchises so that we can do more for all of our members. More options for the public to find us means more chances for every wiki to grow and develop.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Tucayo on January 11, 2011, 01:18:00 AM
?
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: KidIcarus on January 11, 2011, 01:20:57 AM
How about a board for topics of significance formerly restricted to staff members. I applaud NIWA for publicizing the thread on which staff members elected a NIWA Coordinator. I'd like to see more of this. For example, seeing the process of a prospective wiki being elected into the alliance would make for an interesting read. And of course, the threads could be locked.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Nintendoguy1 on January 11, 2011, 04:25:28 AM
Maxite: Explain?
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Reboot on January 11, 2011, 07:24:38 AM
Maxite: Explain?
I think he wants wiki mergers and/or lots of scope creep so that all the NIWA wikis cover the same stuff (e.g., Zelda Wiki "should" cover Smash Bros. since Link & co appear. Since it then covers Smash Bros., it will have articles on Kirby characters and so "should" cover Kirby. And so on...)
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on January 11, 2011, 08:22:11 PM
The basic gist of the "Plea for Generalization" is as follows
1. Bigger sites bring in more visitors
2. More visitors means more people who are likely to contribute
3. More bigger sites that are members of NIWA brings more visitors to NIWA
4. More visitors to NIWA brings more visitors to the smaller sites

In short, I'm making a plea for NIWA to not try recruiting more "generalized" wikis that would garner more attention to themselves, but to also encourage those wikis to try and draw more people towards NIWA itself.

Just as a mall needs anchor stores to help bring people in, it might be best if NIWA had anchor wikis.

Call it a marketing idea for NIWA.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Xizor on January 11, 2011, 10:01:07 PM
I wouldn't call Zelda Wiki "general" at all. In fact, neither would I call Super Mario Wiki general. They focus specifically on their franchises, and especially in the case of Zelda, that's fairly specific.

I see your point, but I don't really think that it's a problem.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Greenpickle on January 11, 2011, 10:14:05 PM
I'm making a plea for NIWA to not try recruiting more "generalized" wikis that would garner more attention to themselves
*not only?

(Oh, and I disagree with the whole thing, but haven't got the time to explain why.)
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on January 12, 2011, 06:52:35 AM
What benefits does a wiki get in joining NIWA? It gets a nominal amount of publicity, a bit of influence in what NIWA does, and potential resource for help/assistance are what I can figure out. Is that it, or is there more?
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Jake on January 12, 2011, 03:52:32 PM
For example, seeing the process of a prospective wiki being elected into the alliance would make for an interesting read.
In the case of wikis that have been accepted into NIWA, the topics are usually just polls with very little discussion. When a wiki comes along that is worth accepting, we're usually all in agreement. It's really not a worthwhile read, to be honest.

What benefits does a wiki get in joining NIWA? It gets a nominal amount of publicity, a bit of influence in what NIWA does, and potential resource for help/assistance are what I can figure out. Is that it, or is there more?
Support and publicity are often the most important things a wiki needs. I've run quite a few sites and forums before, but I can say that I enjoy running a wiki more than anything else. Speaking based on my own experience with NIWA, I can focus more on creating a great wiki than having to worry about advertising and finding users. Better yet, I know that there's always a group of helpful members here should I should ever need help with the software or hosting. Our wikis work with each other, borrowing great ideas and experimenting with new ones. I think this is the best part of our 'garden'; being able to help each other grow and prosper.

It may seem like NIWA only offers traffic and support, but a little help really goes a long way. I don't think I could ask for anything more from NIWA.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Xizor on January 12, 2011, 04:22:01 PM
I've gotta say, every one of your adjectives seemed to marginalize and trivialize what NIWA gives its members. I'm really starting to wonder why you're even here anymore, because it seems like NIWA just frustrates and confuses you constantly.

We give the traffic support of a hub site that gets around 500+ visitors a day (as far as I'm aware) and growing.

We give the traffic support of every other wiki linking back to you, which contributes to increased Google rankings, as well as simply more exposure.

Name is associated with NIWA, which hopefully grants your Wiki a bit of extra credence and credibility with users having a difficult choice picking their "definitive" source of information on your franchise.

Every member of NIWA has full and equal access to all of NIWA's resources, and has equal influence in the going-ons of the organization. Every member of NIWA staff, including all forum Administrators, have a Wiki they are on Staff at.

NIWA protects the interest of all its members equally. Those of us who are active here do not represent every Wiki, because not every wiki wishes to make its presence as known as some others do. That a few Wikis dominate discussion is more because OTHER wikis are apathetic than the dominating wikis are overbearing. However, I see, on a daily basis, usually at least one person from each Wiki posting about something regarding Staff, and everybody's voice counts.

I'm really not sure what else the organization would do, other than boost traffic, provide equal access to management of the thing, and provide a plethora of resources for member wikis to utilize.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on January 12, 2011, 06:27:33 PM
I've gotta say, every one of your adjectives seemed to marginalize and trivialize what NIWA gives its members. I'm really starting to wonder why you're even here anymore, because it seems like NIWA just frustrates and confuses you constantly.
I was trying to be conservative in my estimates, since I lack solid information on what the benefits are and how extensive they are. That is why I asked the question in the first place, so I could learn just the "what" and "how extensive." I'm not trying to pick a fight or criticise with my questions, I'm trying to learn and contribute.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: tacopill on January 12, 2011, 06:56:21 PM
To Xizor:
Wait, now i am confused. You say every wiki has equal influence on what's going in, but if each thing that is going on is voted-via-poll by the staff, wouldn't a bigger staff give that wiki more influence?

Also, if the forum administrators have wiki's to run, would having forum administrators without wiki's to run be helpful? this way they don't have too many things on their plate?

To Maxite:

(http://s3.amazonaws.com/awesome_screenshot/272096?AWSAccessKeyId=0R7FMW7AXRVCYMAPTPR2&Expires=1294874949&Signature=I5OeHbju8MJrlJbp3PJfk/eM7DA%3D)
 (http://awesomescreenshot.com/0935ty831)

Here is wikibound's stats upon joining NIWA. The green line represents the month before, and Blue line is the month of.

Thank you NIWA.  ;D
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Xizor on January 12, 2011, 07:41:00 PM
To Xizor:
Wait, now i am confused. You say every wiki has equal influence on what's going in, but if each thing that is going on is voted-via-poll by the staff, wouldn't a bigger staff give that wiki more influence?

Also, if the forum administrators have wiki's to run, would having forum administrators without wiki's to run be helpful? this way they don't have too many things on their plate?

They do have equal influence. If a Wiki itself objected, instead of just one of its representatives (which no wiki has done - often two reps from one wiki will disagree on a subject if there is disagreement to be had) or we all just agree. Though, to have an example, there are times where SMW staff all oppose something, but if it's clearly JUST SMW, then we can make a decision that benefits the majority of NIWA, rather than caters to a loud minority of a few Wikis. The fact that we have no majority rules in place, or whatever, makes it hard for any one wiki to assert its dominance. And as I've said, any Wiki that acts apathetically is doing it to itself. Thus far, though, there has been no need to set limits on how many Staff a wiki can send here, and no Wiki has tried to overly assert itself where it shouldn't.

As far as the forum Admins go, I think always having a vested interest in a Wiki is important, because NIWA is nothing without the Wikis. If I were JUST the NIWA Coordinator, without any interest in Zelda Wiki, I'd start worrying less about what the Wikis want as individuals, and more about what serves just the organization, and that's bad for the members.

Also, your image wasn't working for me. Dunno if that's JUST for me or if you need to rehost the image elsewhere. :)
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: KidIcarus on January 12, 2011, 09:19:39 PM
How about a board for topics of significance formerly restricted to staff members. I applaud NIWA for publicizing the thread on which staff members elected a NIWA Coordinator. I'd like to see more of this. For example, seeing the process of a prospective wiki being elected into the alliance would make for an interesting read. And of course, the threads could be locked.

Thoughts?

I think this got overshadowed by some other suggestions. Even if they are only polls or whatever, it would still be interesting to see.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Xizor on January 12, 2011, 09:38:56 PM
We're currently discussing another thread we want to release, as well as a more efficient and regular way to publish threads we've finished with that we feel would benefit the community overall. :)
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on January 13, 2011, 12:20:20 AM
What are NIWAs plans for expansion? There's only a finite number of Nintendo franchises to cover, then what?
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: tacopill on January 13, 2011, 12:49:34 AM
Ok, i'm not sure what's wrong with the site i linked it to. Here is my second attempt.

Click the link (http://puu.sh/HGM)

(http://puu.sh/HGM)

Hopefully, this one works for you.



(continuing from Xizor's reply).

With the power structure as it is now, hypothetically, could i:
#1) get 50 of my friends all signed up for WikiBound (none of them being EarthBound fans), give them admin access and have them become NIWA staff, and then tell them to vote for a specific option in the polls?
#2) Post an idea on the staff forums, get one "yes", and immediately assume i have the support of the staff? (This based on the fact that one of my interpretations of what you said is, "even if one wiki says 'no' to something, the rest will say 'yes'.")

Also, without an "admin without outside obligations" who do we talk to about changing things around the forums, making announcements by the wiki's, changing wiki-related information on the NIWA hubsite, forums, etc.

Also Also, what do you mean "is nothing without the wiki's"? i mean, there is a site, and forums, so there is something that exists independent of any wiki.

Also Also Also, how is thinking NIWA as an Organization separate from the Wiki's a bad thing? I'm still confused on this point.

(I apologize if i am being annoying)


What are NIWAs plans for expansion? There's only a finite number of Nintendo franchises to cover, then what?

At the current point, none that i am aware of.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Nintendoguy1 on January 13, 2011, 01:54:02 AM
@tacopill: Treat NIWA as you would wikibound. If one staff member of wikibound (equivalent to one wiki in NIWA) opposed something, would you overrule them? Or listen to them and try to make an agreement?

And at the poll-votes-thing, I believe Xizor said that the wiki that shouts the loudest doesn't necessarily take the cake.

@Maxite: NIWA's expansion is tied to its wiki's expansion - as long as we have two wikis in the alliance, we will be expanding as the wikis will be expanding. Our "job" is to make the wikis better, our "job" is not to make ourselves better. If more wikis want to join, all the better! If not, then we can make do with the ones we have.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Xizor on January 13, 2011, 02:22:15 AM
(continuing from Xizor's reply).

With the power structure as it is now, hypothetically, could i:
#1) get 50 of my friends all signed up for WikiBound (none of them being EarthBound fans), give them admin access and have them become NIWA staff, and then tell them to vote for a specific option in the polls?

If you did that, as I said, we have no rules in place, so you'd basically ruin a poll and force us to put aside an important issue to deal with a childish outburst from a Wiki trying to achieve who knows what. But honestly, it'd never get to that point, because at some point we'd notice you padding your own numbers and we'd all put a cap on it and probably be forced to cut staff in order to even things out, or rather take away each staff member's vote in certain situations, and then go back to the way we used to do things, which was have on person "represent" each wiki in certain votes.

I know I said never to compare to government, but this is the best example I can think of: The US House of Representatives - larger states get more votes and thus more influence, but rarely will every member of such a delegation sycophantically take the orders of someone at the top. I know I said everyone has equal say, and that equal say can be asserted even if you have a smaller staff. Your Wiki's staff would be proportionate to your Wiki's needs. Honestly, we operate under the assumption that we're all here to work together and achieve great things overall, rather than be d***s and throw tantrums. If any wiki did what you described, I'd seriously question their membership in the organization, because that honestly goes against just about every principle of the thing. Thus, larger Wikis would not abuse their size to bully smaller Wikis, because we're all here to help each other. Even further, there's very little bullying to be had, because NIWA does not enforce anything, and it's nigh impossible to cut someone out of resources and help, such as all the boards we have available, and the new CrossWiki Team.

Quote
#2) Post an idea on the staff forums, get one "yes", and immediately assume i have the support of the staff? (This based on the fact that one of my interpretations of what you said is, "even if one wiki says 'no' to something, the rest will say 'yes'.")

I'm not sure how you misinterpreted me here, but it means that throughout the length of a discussion, even if one Wiki objects, if we can determine that it won't hurt that wiki, we can still do something if a great majority feels that we should do something. I really don't know how you took anything I said to mean you can assume something is settled from one reply. Maybe because I said something about apathetic members?

Quote
Also, without an "admin without outside obligations" who do we talk to about changing things around the forums, making announcements by the wiki's, changing wiki-related information on the NIWA hubsite, forums, etc.

The admins now take care of these things, myself included. In fact, all of those things you should funnel through me. That's why we created the Coordinator position. I know who to delegate to, and things will get taken care of by the people who have always taken care of them.

Quote
Also Also, what do you mean "is nothing without the wiki's"? i mean, there is a site, and forums, so there is something that exists independent of any wiki.

I've said before that this place would cease to exist if every wiki left. We're an Alliance, and an Alliance is what it is because of its members. There would be no United States of America without the 50 states. There would be no European Union if all member states left. There would be no NATO if all member states left. There would be no NFL if all teams disbanded/left the league (which has happened with Sports leagues). There is no NIWA without the Wikis. Yes, there may be REMNANTS of a structure from before, but that structure is meaningless without any members.

Quote
Also Also Also, how is thinking NIWA as an Organization separate from the Wiki's a bad thing? I'm still confused on this point.

Because, as I've just said, NIWA is only the summation of its members and their needs and the methods by which we address those needs. These forums have no point or purpose outside of that. Wiki tools, community building, interwiki friendship, all of those things and more are part of the members and their needs. NIWA was nothing before its members created it, and they created it in coming together. It wasn't like NIWA started up with no members, and then started recruiting. It only exists because Wikis came together and made it so.

What are NIWAs plans for expansion? There's only a finite number of Nintendo franchises to cover, then what?

What Nintendoguy said sits with me pretty well. Eventually, yes, NIWA may no longer be gaining new member Wikis, but those Wikis are always working to improve. That is the overall point of potential other "IWA" organizations, because trying to cram 200+ wikis into something like what we have will not sustain itself, and will either collapse or be forced to function like Wikia. It is not what we want.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: tacopill on January 15, 2011, 12:37:01 AM
@Nintendoguy1:
I would work with them. But my mind / imagination / curiosity / paronia / etc. Is not always bound by reality or what is likely to happen. Rather, it is bound by my inability to communicate effectively.

Thank you for the example though. It helped.

@Xizor:
Thank you for the very elaborate and detailed answer. I believe it should satisfy my curiosity and paranoia (for now). Although, i did have to look up a few words, like sycophantically.

As for the Interpretation, at one point during my history with NIWA (moths ago) i became convinced that we all always vote yes, or at least vote favorably for everything that came up. (I was new, what do you want from me?)

Based on that, it seemed natural to me to ask a question, get one yes, assume the rest of the staff would be in agreement, and therefore not have to wait for them to actually respond.

What you said, chimed as a similar situation, so i added it to the list of hypothetical stuff in order to see what you would say in response.

@Nintendoguy1, Xizor:
Hopefully what i have said will helps clear things up for . If it doesn't, then, if requested, i can give you a detailed post on how my interpretations of things are different than the "average" person, which would include references to my background, friends, family members, all sorts of instructors I've had and two of my three advisors in college.  ;)

@ALL:
Is the image showing up for everyone?
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Nintendoguy1 on January 15, 2011, 01:41:33 AM
There's an image?</anticlimactic>
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on January 15, 2011, 01:55:59 AM
What does NIWA plan on doing with regards to the development of other IWAs? Is NIWA going to help those out, and if so, to what extent? Will NIWA affiliate with them?
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Archaic on January 15, 2011, 02:24:16 AM
Our response to other IWA's would be on a case by case basis. While we might be the inspiration for them, we can't be sure that any IWA created would necessarily share the same long term philosophies or goals.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on January 15, 2011, 02:45:24 AM
Our response to other IWA's would be on a case by case basis. While we might be the inspiration for them, we can't be sure that any IWA created would necessarily share the same long term philosophies or goals.

And what long term philosophies and goals are those that NIWA has?
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Nintendoguy1 on January 15, 2011, 03:17:12 AM
For example, we refuse to impose any policies or rules upon our members.

Another IWA may not.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: tacopill on January 15, 2011, 07:21:19 AM
There's an image?</anticlimactic>

Yes. Check out This post (http://www.niwanetwork.org/forums/index.php?topic=664.msg16361#msg16361)

Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Axiomist on January 15, 2011, 10:34:31 AM
What does NIWA plan on doing with regards to the development of other IWAs? Is NIWA going to help those out, and if so, to what extent? Will NIWA affiliate with them?

We do hope other wiki alliances will form. We can't be too involved in the creation of those, but would gladly share the enough details that a basic model could be formed for them.

Affiliation, like others said, would be case-by-case. I presume you ask for your DAWN group. Since that grouping is still in its infancy, we probably couldn't reach a consensus on affiliating with it.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Xizor on January 15, 2011, 11:58:26 AM
What they said. :P
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on January 17, 2011, 04:12:42 AM
A minor suggestion:
Could we replace the chatroom (http://www.niwanetwork.org/forums/index.php?topic=324.0) thread with a more generic "Contacts" thread, that would include
1. A list of all Forum Administrators
2. A list of wiki representatives
3. Information on how to join the NIWA chat on Skype.

I've checked the chat listed in that thread several times, and I've never seen anyone else in it.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Nintendoguy1 on January 17, 2011, 06:24:35 AM
Um...I think that thread links to #niwa and I think we abandonned that channel...

If you want me to try making that channel more active I can...

It does lead to #niwa, right?
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on January 17, 2011, 06:37:46 AM
We have a NIWA chatroom on Skype. Why do we need another chatroom on IRC?
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: tacopill on January 17, 2011, 05:22:34 PM
We have a NIWA chatroom on Skype. Why do we need another chatroom on IRC?

IRC is technically more open, since you can just go to the web page, and there it is.

However, i personally think Skype is better, since it logs your chats, keeps your contact info, allows for voice and video chatting, and is easier for me to read when it comes to the conversation.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Moydow on January 17, 2011, 05:58:08 PM
Plus, not everyone likes Skype as an IM tool. I don't see why. Let's just say each has its advantages.

Also, here's another IRC chat, hosted on the StrategyWiki IRC servers:
irc://irc.abxy.org/NIWA
Or go here (http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Special:WebChat) and type JOIN #NIWA.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on January 17, 2011, 06:05:16 PM
Yes, I do suppose not everyone likes Skype. I did check out the NIWA chatroom on the abxy.org server, and it too was dead.

Back to the original question/idea: Why not just have a generic "Contacts" thread that lists all the forum administrators, the representatives for the member wikis, and information on how to access the various chatrooms that NIWA has?

Or maybe we could update the "Contact" page on the main site to include information on the various chatrooms that have been set up, including the Skype one which is the most frequently used and would thusly be the most useful to people.

========
========

Also, in relation to this: Forum layout. Been brought up before, but a while back I wrote a suggestion on how I thought it might be to better organize the boards. The general idea is to split up posts into sections that they best fit in, so that it's not only easier to navigate the forums, but also easier to find specific information. Here is what I came up with:

Quote
A general key is as follows:
== FORUM CATEGORY ==
Board name: Board descriptor
> Subboards

Here's my suggestion:

===NIWA Community===
NIWA Updates: Announcements, policies, suggestions and discussion on changes
> Membership and Affiliate Requests
NIWA General: General NIWA discussion
> NIWA Archives: Old or outdated posts and discussions that are preserved here for historical purposes.

Wiki References: The index of wiki information to help you improve your skills

Member Boards: For general video game discussion, or specialized discussion within member subboards
> Animal Crossing
> Donkey Kong
> Earthbound/Mother
> Golden Sun
> Kirby
> Mario
> Metroid
> Nintendo Discussion (aka Nintendo Wiki)
> Nintendo Wars
> Pikmin
> Pokémon
> StarFox
> Strategies and Guides (aka Strategy Wiki)
> Super Smash Bros Brawl
> The Legend of Zelda

===General Area===
Member Reference: Introductions and farewells.
The Lounge: General conversations belong here.
Forum Gaming: Get involved and have a little fun with some forum games!
Fan Creations: For drawings, music, comics, games or anything else created by you. This is your chance to show it off.
Other Media: For music, television, books, and movies, this is the place.

If nothing else, I'd just like to see an Updates, Archives, and Forum Gaming boards made.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Greenpickle on January 17, 2011, 07:08:07 PM
I've been using one of (...there are two why?) the NIWA IRC channels for a while now, and rarely seen anyone; this may be partially to do with timezones, but still could do with fixing, I think.  I don't like Skype.  (Note that client-specific complaints like lack of logs are silly, because half the point of IRC is that it's an open protocol supported by hundreds of clients.)
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: tacopill on January 18, 2011, 08:29:16 PM
There's probably no one on because it's not well known, and there are probably two because one was made with out knowledge of the other.

regardless, i suggest:
#1) we add the basic IRC & NIWA IRC-specific information to NintendoWiki (http://niwanetwork.org/wiki/index.php/NintendoWiki:IRC). this way the information can become more public, and people with standalone clients can just sign up and those that IRC over skype also have an option.
#2) we add NIWA IRC-specific info on to the NintendoWiki Community portal page (http://niwanetwork.org/wiki/index.php/NintendoWiki:Community_portal). In addition, links to each wiki's community pages can be posted there.



Yes, I do suppose not everyone likes Skype. I did check out the NIWA chatroom on the abxy.org server, and it too was dead.

Back to the original question/idea: Why not just have a generic "Contacts" thread that lists all the forum administrators, the representatives for the member wikis, and information on how to access the various chatrooms that NIWA has?

Or maybe we could update the "Contact" page on the main site to include information on the various chatrooms that have been set up, including the Skype one which is the most frequently used and would thusly be the most useful to people.

========
========

Also, in relation to this: Forum layout. Been brought up before, but a while back I wrote a suggestion on how I thought it might be to better organize the boards. The general idea is to split up posts into sections that they best fit in, so that it's not only easier to navigate the forums, but also easier to find specific information. Here is what I came up with:

Quote
===NIWA Community===
NIWA Updates: Announcements, policies, suggestions and discussion on changes
> Membership and Affiliate Requests
NIWA General: General NIWA discussion
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===General Area===
Member Reference: Introductions and farewells.
The Lounge: General conversations belong here.
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If nothing else, I'd just like to see an Updates, Archives, and Forum Gaming boards made.

I like many of these changes. Although, i had something else in mind for NintendoWiki & StrategyWiki's boards.

Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Tina on January 18, 2011, 09:21:11 PM
Just adding in that there's no point in having a channel if no one goes to it. An option that's dead all the time is pretty dumb.

If we're going to keep an IRC channel, we'd need someone to volunteer staffing it, publicize it as much as we do with Skype, and just stick to one network instead of having multiple channels on multiple networks. Makes it confusing.

This kind of reminds me of when Bulbapedia opened an IRC channel. Nobody really publicized it, and all of the staff used a different chat system in the first place. Not much of a point. :\

While I do love IRC, I kind of think that Skype suits NIWA's lifestyle the most, and it's pretty hard to get people to adapt to a different chat format. I've tried.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Greenpickle on January 18, 2011, 09:35:07 PM
No-one goes to it because few people know about it and the rest don't go because no-one goes to it.

Quote
[20:12:34] * ChanServ has changed topic for #niwa to: "Channel is inactive. Thanks"

...

You only need to worry about staff if you start getting problems.

I kind of think that Skype suits NIWA's lifestyle the most

Why, apart from the fact it's already established?
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: KidIcarus on January 18, 2011, 09:52:17 PM
How can one even access the NIWA Skype Chat?
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Tina on January 18, 2011, 09:56:56 PM
You only need to worry about staff if you start getting problems.
Well, yeah. I mean one person to step up and care for the channel, not an entire team of staff. By care for I mean at least not flat out abandon it. (You have no idea how many times I've been in a situation where an op is needed, and the owner's abandoned the channel...)
Quote
Why, apart from the fact it's already established?
Since Skype keeps an active log of things and just gives you everything you've missed while not signed out (wow there could have been a better way to word that), and since a lot of people tend to miss each other a lot... yeah. IRC's pretty good if everyone happens to be active around the same time, although there's always idling in a channel.

I'd also like to add in that I'm in no way against IRC whatsoever - I love it, lol. But I'm not sure if it would be worth the effort to try and get an active channel running for here specifically.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: tacopill on January 18, 2011, 10:03:17 PM
How can one even access the NIWA Skype Chat?

Well, first you need Skype (http://www.skype.com/intl/en-us/home). Then add myself, malake256 or anyone on this list (http://www.niwanetwork.org/forums/index.php?action=mlist;sort=skype;start=0) and they probably can add you to the chat. (I recommend adding malake256, the founder of the Chat  ;D).



@Tina:
The reason i recommended going to NWiki with the info is: the IRC people can talk on IRC, the skype people can go on Skype, and the forums serve as a center of it all. No one is forced to adjust to the other's chat stylings.


Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Greenpickle on January 18, 2011, 10:25:58 PM
I'd also like to add in that I'm in no way against IRC whatsoever - I love it, lol. But I'm not sure if it would be worth the effort to try and get an active channel running for here specifically.

Mhm.  I'm just getting tired of how Skype likes to pass on messages minutes to hours after they were sent, even if I was online when it was sent.  And I just never liked anything closed, really.  (I'm pretty sure it's the only thing that's not open source in my primary OS.  Oh, no, wait, Flash.  Still waiting on Gnash/Lightspark...)
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Nintendoguy1 on January 19, 2011, 04:18:32 AM
OK, I already asked this question, do you want #niwa to be more active? If people here promise they will use it, I can attempt to make the channel a more active place. The channel was originally abandoned because nobody went there, if people start going there again, we can try to return it to activity.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Xizor on January 19, 2011, 05:22:15 AM
I prefer Skype mainly for the chat logs. I feel that's a very indispensible tool. When I log into Skype, I can catch up on everything I missed and then make a proper assessment of what to do as soon as I've logged in.

On the matter of forum organization: The staff is discussing right now first what we want to do with our gaming boards, and once we've sorted that out, we're going to move onto reorganizing the forums. Your input will be considered when we do that. :)
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Greenpickle on January 19, 2011, 08:49:03 AM
OK, I already asked this question, do you want #niwa to be more active?

I've been using one of (...there are two why?) the NIWA IRC channels for a while now, and rarely seen anyone; this may be partially to do with timezones, but still could do with fixing, I think.

I prefer Skype mainly for the chat logs. I feel that's a very indispensible tool. When I log into Skype, I can catch up on everything I missed and then make a proper assessment of what to do as soon as I've logged in.

Hmm, I think a slight problem with depending on Skype's logs (despite the erratic way they decide to load...) is that their prescence means Skype could be used more and more as the forum should be.  (I say 'could' because I haven't spent enough time looking through the Skype logs to know if it is currently the case.)  The forum should be the place any persistent discussion should take place.  Do I recall correctly that others (non-Skype users) were complaining/worrying about decisions (potentially) being made on Skype?  The logging is, of course, still useful, though (when it gets the messages to you in a timely manner...).

Of course, if you want, I'm sure there are loads of bots out there to save and post up IRC logs to a webpage wherever, or you might even find a service that has it integrated in the channel service.  An argument, of course, is that with Skype, it's already in place - but then, you need to have a Skype account and access to the chat to view the logs.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: KidIcarus on January 19, 2011, 06:47:05 PM
I prefer IRC just because of convenience. There's no need to sign up and download the program for new users. I would use the chat if people were on it.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Xizor on January 20, 2011, 12:13:45 AM
Skype is an instant messenger, and when it is used, it is always used as one. The logs thing just makes it so that important conversations don't get lost, or the allow me to jump right into a discussion if I arrive in the middle of it.

I'm not discounting IRC - I just have never had a good experience when using it.

However, I think this discussion is getting a bit too specific for this thread. Is this really the kind of discussion we want to be having right now? Skype vs. IRC? I mean, I'm all for it if you guys want to have it, but it should be its own thread so we don't lose focus on other important issues, too.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Greenpickle on January 20, 2011, 08:46:40 AM
Yeah, sorry, I was just replying to stuff I saw.  I just get emails for topics I track, so I don't really pay attention to what the actual topic is, just the new posts.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Tappy on January 20, 2011, 05:35:53 PM
IRC really depends on where you go, you can go to either a stable network or a non stable network. The network I help run is 98% stable, the other 2% is usually when someone tries to Botnet us or DDoS us which is extremely rare and even so it's usually not a problem.

As far as logging goes most IRC clients ( not web browser based ) offer a logging method. It doesn't replay it to you when you log in, unless you have a BNC, but it's available in a text file.

Skype usually seems to not always relay messages when they are said but instead way a few hours then say them.

Not everyone may have skype installed and it kinda seems fairly silly to "force" people to download it and install it to be able to get in on the discussions.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on January 20, 2011, 05:44:54 PM
Yes, IRC and Skype both offer their own advantages.

Moving this along, maybe it might be better to move the Chat display to the main NIWA site rather than burying it in our forums. That way we have one less stickied thread in the way, and it's easier for people to find so the chat can maintain activity.

Also, for the SystemNet chat, I just logged in again, and guess what... NIWAGuest has Op powers. Might want to bump security a wee bit.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Xizor on January 20, 2011, 06:44:03 PM
The inconsistency in the chats is why I've said nothing is "official" until it's posted here. The preference differences are handled so long as we all communicate here at the forums.

Let's either make a new topic for IRC vs. Skype issues, and move in here, or just simply move on in here. Either way, this is far too specific for this thread.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: tacopill on January 20, 2011, 06:52:26 PM
I'm making the threads now.

Please go here (http://www.niwanetwork.org/forums/index.php?topic=799) to talk about IRC-specific stuff.

Please go here (http://www.niwanetwork.org/forums/index.php?topic=386.0) for skype specific stuff

And Please go here For the ultamite Skype vs. IRC battle (http://www.niwanetwork.org/forums/index.php?topic=800)
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: R7308xx on January 22, 2011, 02:34:22 AM
(doesn't know if anyone's mentioned this)

NIWA needs to be more than just a forum.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Jake on January 22, 2011, 03:39:13 AM
(doesn't know if anyone's mentioned this)

NIWA needs to be more than just a forum.
We have a few projects in the works, but we're always looking for suggestions. Did you have anything specific in mind?
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on January 22, 2011, 03:43:12 AM
The news blog that was talked about (http://www.niwanetwork.org/forums/index.php?topic=540.0) might be a nice feature to add.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Miles of SmashWiki on January 22, 2011, 04:03:43 AM
(doesn't know if anyone's mentioned this)

NIWA needs to be more than just a forum.

I... I'm just not gonna even start rambling about how much I agree with this.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: KidIcarus on January 22, 2011, 04:05:37 AM
The news blog that was talked about (http://www.niwanetwork.org/forums/index.php?topic=540.0) might be a nice feature to add.

If a forum admin doesn't mind, could we move that topic to the NIWA Discussion sub-forum? It seems more appropriate.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: R7308xx on January 22, 2011, 06:42:46 AM
NIWA could maybe use like a shop... Or a news blog, definitely... It's own MMO, maybe? A lot of things.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on January 22, 2011, 06:55:50 AM
NIWA could maybe use like a shop... Or a news blog, definitely... It's own MMO, maybe? A lot of things.

I'm not so sure about the feasibility of NIWA setting up a shop or an MMO. If you're talking about a forum shop, we already have one, although I suppose it could be expanded.
While I am aware of many places where you can set up shops to sell basic merchandise, even if we did so, what would we do with the revenue? Who would want to buy NIWA merchandise in the first place? Not to mention the potential headaches we could run across from trademarks and copyrights if we try and sell items.
As far as an MMO goes, I highly doubt that it would be feasible to set one up. And even if we did get one set up, I'd question the viability of it since I'm not so sure it'd get used enough.

A News Blog is a good start for now. Maybe even a NIWA Twitter account.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Xizor on January 22, 2011, 01:50:20 PM
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/NIWANetwork - Like away.

As for a Shop, that's a no. Making money off of a Nintendo trademark (their name)? That's how you spell L-I-T-I-G-A-T-I-O-N.

As for an MMO...please keep suggestions serious.

A blog is already in the works. Worry not. Things have to be sorted out, though. For example, Zelda Wiki (http://www.zeldawiki.org) has a News Dashboard; the blog has to be set up so as to not directly compete with such features of our Wikis and thus detract from them. NIWA is meant only to enhance its members.

NIWA is more than a forum...it's every single Wiki that makes up the alliance. NIWA is nothing, I repeat, absolutely nothing without its members. Go explore their communities, edit the wikis. Get off the forum. I encourage you to explore the vastness of NIWA.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on January 22, 2011, 08:35:11 PM
I know this may sound silly, but has NIWA considered expanding beyond promotion of independent wikis? There are plenty of independent forums (and "forum farms") out there as well. Or does NIWA just do simple affiliations with them?
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Archaic on January 22, 2011, 09:03:58 PM
NIWA
Nintendo Independent Wiki Alliance

That answer your question?

Realistically, most of our members are already either affiliated with forums or running their own forums. We'd do simple affiliations with some major external forums on a case by case basis, but those would still be subject to site vetos. For example, Serebii is a prominent independent Pokémon forum, but being a site that's very much a rival to Bulbagarden/Bulbapedia, an affiliation with them would be subject to our veto.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on January 22, 2011, 09:47:06 PM
I know that NIWA's main focus is on wikis. I was just wondering how other independent non-wiki sites are handled (as well as wondering NIWA has considered expanding to include more formal affiliations with them).
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Jake on January 22, 2011, 10:37:07 PM
I was just wondering how other independent non-wiki sites are handled (as well as wondering NIWA has considered expanding to include more formal affiliations with them).
They'd be treated as regular affiliates. An alliance for forums is outside the scope of NIWA and would require an alliance of its own to be created.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on January 23, 2011, 04:50:56 AM
I know that the member wikis host events/competitions, but why doesn't NIWA host some events/competitions of its own? Maybe a competition between the wikis?
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: tacopill on January 23, 2011, 05:40:31 AM
Not to derail from Maxite's question, but i thought the link to NIWA's facebook looked.... odd.

http://www.facebook.com/NIWANetwork

this one should work out.


also, i like the MMO idea

Anyway, don't mind me. back to the regular conversation.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Nintendoguy1 on January 25, 2011, 01:59:33 AM
I know that the member wikis host events/competitions, but why doesn't NIWA host some events/competitions of its own? Maybe a competition between the wikis?
That could be slightly demoralizing...

If we were to make a competition, what would it be about?
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: KidIcarus on January 25, 2011, 04:00:05 AM
We're currently discussing another thread we want to release, as well as a more efficient and regular way to publish threads we've finished with that we feel would benefit the community overall. :)

Is this still being considered?
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Maxite on January 25, 2011, 04:16:09 AM
For competitions?
Maybe a "Best Article" competition, or a "Best Transition from Stub to Full Article" award (that could be determined by looking at the history of the article). Those would be simple to do, although for wikis that are still lacking in content it would be rather disadvantageous to them.

Maybe a community awards for the anniversary? Best members (I nominate tacopill), most helpful staff, most edits NIWA-wide, etc... Be fun, different, and wouldn't hurt morale.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Nintendoguy1 on January 25, 2011, 04:34:02 AM
For competitions?
Maybe a "Best Article" competition, or a "Best Transition from Stub to Full Article" award (that could be determined by looking at the history of the article). Those would be simple to do, although for wikis that are still lacking in content it would be rather disadvantageous to them.

Maybe a community awards for the anniversary? Best members (I nominate tacopill), most helpful staff, most edits NIWA-wide, etc... Be fun, different, and wouldn't hurt morale.
I think Wiki-vs-wiki competitions would be highly biased but best member (NIWA-Wide) is a good idea...
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Xizor on January 25, 2011, 05:27:56 AM
We're currently discussing another thread we want to release, as well as a more efficient and regular way to publish threads we've finished with that we feel would benefit the community overall. :)

Is this still being considered?

Of course.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Tattletale1 on February 24, 2011, 07:55:49 PM
Polls
Is there a way to increase the amount of votes users can do, as well as check the allow users to change their vote box after posting the poll?  
I'd like to alter my poll so I can make those changes,

I want to restart my poll and change its features without starting a new thread...


...also, can NiWa eventually add a feature that allows users to link one of their polls to multiple boards/threads, showing the same poll results on both threads?


I'm not asking something ridiculous like adding multiple polls per thread...

...or arrow buttons that can be used to sort individual poll option results however users wish, allowing to bump up a poll option, while keeping its original vote count, instead of users waiting for two vote counts to become alike before switching places...
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Member#36 on February 24, 2011, 09:50:16 PM
Polls
Is there a way to increase the amount of votes users can do

There is an option to change the "maximum votes per user" in poll options before you publish it.

Quote
as well as cheUck the allow users to change their vote box after posting the poll?

A user should think carefully before voting.  If their vote changes due to a good point being brought up, they can ask an admin to change it for them.  This option (user can change votes with a click) may be available, if available for SMF, but that's up to the rest of the staff.

If you want an option changed, ask an admin.  Users can abuse the system, by continually changing the options, which will only annoy other members.  I don't really see any need to change an option, unless there was a spelling error, or something.

Quote
I want to restart my poll and change its features without starting a new thread...

Instead of restarting it, get an admin to make the changes to the poll.  Restarting it (removing and adding a new one) only erases some of possible discussion, and will annoy some users, as they will have to vote again.

Quote
...also, can NiWa eventually add a feature that allows users to link one of their polls to multiple boards/threads, showing the same poll results on both threads?

I've never seen this before... I don't even think it's possible.  If anything, you can link to the thread with the poll, and type up the results in the first post...

Quote
instead of users waiting for two vote counts to become alike before switching places...

If you are waiting to vote so that you will vote for the winner, then you might as well not vote at all.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: tacopill on February 25, 2011, 09:06:26 PM
Quote
...also, can NiWa eventually add a feature that allows users to link one of their polls to multiple boards/threads, showing the same poll results on both threads?

I've never seen this before... I don't even think it's possible.  If anything, you can link to the thread with the poll, and type up the results in the first post...

Depending on how the database is structured, it might be possible.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Xizor on February 28, 2011, 01:12:18 PM
It's not possible to have a poll appear the same way in two threads. If it is, I don't know how to do it. It's not a feature I've ever seen/heard of.

As far as changing a poll once you've created it, ask an admin, yes. Also, to increase poll options, you can do that yourself I think. If there's a force cap set by the board, I can't imagine it being lower than 10, and I feel like over 10 poll options is...excessive.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Member#36 on February 28, 2011, 07:37:37 PM
Also, to increase poll options, you can do that yourself I think.

You can do it, it's under "(Add Option)".
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: tacopill on March 01, 2011, 12:47:55 AM
Also, to increase poll options, you can do that yourself I think.

You can do it, it's under "(Add Option)".

would increasing the amount of options on an already existing poll count as "changing it"?
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Member#36 on March 01, 2011, 12:57:10 AM
Also, to increase poll options, you can do that yourself I think.

You can do it, it's under "(Add Option)".

would increasing the amount of options on an already existing poll count as "changing it"?

Only an admin can add options, or change it, after it has been posted.  ...And to answer your question, yes, due to it no longer being in its previous state. 
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: tacopill on March 01, 2011, 08:39:01 PM
Also, to increase poll options, you can do that yourself I think.

You can do it, it's under "(Add Option)".

would increasing the amount of options on an already existing poll count as "changing it"?

Only an admin can add options, or change it, after it has been posted.  ...And to answer your question, yes, due to it no longer being in its previous state. 

ah. OK. Just making sure.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: SnorlaxMonster on March 19, 2011, 02:55:10 AM
The Google search bar on the hub isn't working for me.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Miles of SmashWiki on March 19, 2011, 03:16:24 AM
The Google search bar on the hub isn't working for me.

Working fine for me.  What search were you trying, and in what browser?
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: SnorlaxMonster on March 19, 2011, 04:31:20 AM
The Google search bar on the hub isn't working for me.

Working fine for me.  What search were you trying, and in what browser?
I've tried searching various things.
When I tried searching Mario, I got this:
[spoiler=hidden]
(http://i523.photobucket.com/albums/w355/SnorlaxMonster/brokenNIWAsearchbar.png)
[/spoiler]
As you can see, only Google's ads show up. Searching Pikachu just yields a blank screen. I've tried searching various other things too.

As for my side, I'm using Firefox 3.6.15 on Windows XP.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Seritinajii on March 19, 2011, 04:46:38 AM
Mine doesn't actually do anything when I search. I searched Pikachu, but nothing happened besides the page getting larger by a few pixels. I am using Chrome 10.0.648.134 on Windows Vista.

The Chrome app seems to work, though.

EDIT: Nevermind, it is working for me! It wasn't working for a few minutes, but it works now. Well, each time I refresh the page, it takes a few minutes to work.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: SnorlaxMonster on March 19, 2011, 05:53:00 AM
Mine doesn't actually do anything when I search. I searched Pikachu, but nothing happened besides the page getting larger by a few pixels.
I get this exact same thing. The screen then shrinks back to its normal size a short while after.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Greenpickle on March 19, 2011, 08:20:42 AM
Just tested it, same thing was happening, so I pressed search a few times and it worked.  Now it works first time even after reloading the page.  Strange.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Xizor on March 19, 2011, 09:10:21 AM
If this issue persists, try it in a different browser. If that solves the problem, let Tappy know which browser wasn't working, and maybe he can fix it, as I think he was the one who set up the current hub site.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: SnorlaxMonster on March 19, 2011, 10:52:55 AM
I tried the only other browser I have - IE6 - and the same thing happened (before you tell me to update it, I never use it anyway). However, I found that clicking the little X on the right hand side sometimes fixes it, but not always (seems to work very rarely). I've tried soft refreshing, hard refreshing, and pressing the search button lots of times, but I still can't get it to work outside of the ~3/30 times after pressing the X.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Greenpickle on March 19, 2011, 11:09:02 AM
Okay, it's happening on and off here, and when it works/doesn't work, it seems to work/not work in every browser, so I'm guessing it's a problem with Google's servers somewhere.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Xizor on March 19, 2011, 11:33:38 AM
Hmmm, that's very odd. Perhaps there's an issue in the script, or it's outdated or something (usually though if that's the case, the entire thing breaks down). I'll make sure the appropriate people know about the issue.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Tappy on March 19, 2011, 02:36:34 PM
Any chance you can update your Internet Explorer to the latest version for your OS?

IE 9 for Windows 7 ONLY (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/internet-explorer/products/ie/home)
IE 8 (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/internet-explorer/downloads/ie-8)

IE 6 is generally no longer supported.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Greenpickle on March 19, 2011, 03:06:48 PM
(before you tell me to update it, I never use it anyway)
And the fact multiple people are having the issue across multiple browsers means, as I said, it's not a browser-specific issue.

Edit: got it.

Quote
Quota Exceeded. Please see http://code.google.com/apis/websearch

It's meant to link here (https://code.google.com/apis/customsearch/v1/overview.html).  100 queries per day?  So I guess the fact it works on and off means it works on a rolling count, based on the last 24h, so as times where lots of searches were made 24h ago pass, some of the quota is freed up, as it were.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Tappy on March 19, 2011, 03:37:27 PM
There have only been 72 queries this month.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Greenpickle on March 19, 2011, 03:44:25 PM
Well, that's the error I got.  Ask Google; I take it they have some sort of feedback ticket system?
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Jake on March 19, 2011, 03:46:23 PM
I think we really need to reopen discussion of using a different (self hosted) search engine. 100 searches per day could become a problem during some months with heavy traffic. Also, as others have pointed out, Google isn't prioritizing the smaller wikis that have better information for some searches. This leads to our uses not getting the best information possible. Being able to control how searches are handled is really important if we want to deliver the best possible hub site experience.

There are some great open source search engines that would allow us to do this relatively quickly, and for free.

(Edited to reflect mistake. Thanks Greenpickle!)
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Greenpickle on March 19, 2011, 03:51:17 PM
It was 100 per day, but I still agree.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Xizor on March 19, 2011, 06:30:53 PM
Well, I guess that's that, then.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: SnorlaxMonster on March 23, 2011, 01:35:44 PM
The search bar seems to be working again, but I do agree that a locally hosted one would be better.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Naesala on April 12, 2011, 12:05:31 AM
Weren't we gonna have a news feed on the home page dealing with anything from all the series we (currently) have wikis for?
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: tacopill on April 16, 2011, 06:30:31 PM
Weren't we gonna have a news feed on the home page dealing with anything from all the series we (currently) have wikis for?

I am currently seeing if i can revive such talks on the staff side.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Xizor on April 17, 2011, 01:04:25 AM
That has indeed been a discussion, but has yet to get anywhere because of disagreements on exact implementation. Hopefully we'll get something created soon that is functional and not overwhelming.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: tacopill on April 24, 2011, 08:12:35 PM
That has indeed been a discussion, but has yet to get anywhere because of disagreements on exact implementation. Hopefully we'll get something created soon that is functional and not overwhelming.

agreed! I look forward to the final result.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Naesala on December 08, 2011, 01:50:00 AM
The Metroid Wiki link is broken!
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Jake on December 08, 2011, 08:30:19 PM
The Metroid Wiki link is broken!
The link isn't broken. The site appears to be having some trouble right now.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Greenpickle on December 08, 2011, 09:01:21 PM
The one on the hub works, but the one here (bar at the top) doesn't.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Jake on December 10, 2011, 10:10:04 PM
The one on the hub works, but the one here (bar at the top) doesn't.
Oops, I didn't check the hub too. My mistake Naesala.  :-[

An admin can probably fix that once one reads this thread.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Greenpickle on December 10, 2011, 10:48:35 PM
Well, I have FTP access; I just don't know which file the bar's in.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: Tappy on December 12, 2011, 12:28:17 AM
fixed
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: KidIcarus on February 25, 2013, 01:01:27 AM
How about a logo redesign? The logo doens't create a lasting impression for people because most people don't know what it is. For people not aware of NIWA, they wouldn't even know it's about Nintendo unless the took their time to quint their eyes and read the fine print.

Questions, comment, concerns, dreams, feelings, reactions?
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: dkpat on February 26, 2013, 06:48:40 PM
How about a logo redesign? The logo doens't create a lasting impression for people because most people don't know what it is. For people not aware of NIWA, they wouldn't even know it's about Nintendo unless the took their time to quint their eyes and read the fine print.

Questions, comment, concerns, dreams, feelings, reactions?

I don't feel a need.  It's not like our "Branding" needs to be improved or anything.
Title: Re: Improving NIWA
Post by: KidIcarus on June 10, 2014, 08:49:17 PM
Maybe it doesn't need to be improved, but I think it doesn't hurt.