NIWA Community Forums
NIWA Community => NIWA Discussion => Topic started by: HavocReaper48 on December 20, 2010, 01:22:35 AM
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I agree per everyone who states things are lazy around here. Heck, what I would suggest is putting together a team of experienced editors who come to wiki to wiki and improve the massive needs of improvements. Those who are willing to do some research and upload an image or two. We could have a cool insignia and team name.
While I hate singling wikis out, I must. ...I'll start with W.B., which is in clear need of help. http://wikibound.info/Mother_%28video_game%29 (http://wikibound.info/Mother_%28video_game%29) Wut. The article on the first game in the series barely tells us anything. And you know, I figured the wiki thought once they joined they would come across an editor with more experience with the game. Never happened.
Let's take the DKWiki. http://www.donkeykongwiki.com/Special:WantedPages (http://www.donkeykongwiki.com/Special:WantedPages) It's most wanted pages is a five-way tie between Tiki Boing, Tiki Zing, Tiki Tork, Tiki Pop & Tiki Doom, all new characters from DKCR. As of now, 123 red links to them, IT'S OVER 100!!!!!!! WHAT 100 THEREZ NO WAY THAT CAN BE RIGHT, which is pret-ty bad.
http://zeldawiki.org/Main_Page (http://zeldawiki.org/Main_Page) ...someone really needs to get ridda all of that blue.
All in for the NIWA Reform Team? Every wiki needs each other's help.
(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100701011824/streetfighter/images/8/83/Akuma-sf3-eviltaunt.gif) (yeah we need an insignia)
Regarding my wiki's progress after jumping ship, fantastic. Things really got better with the exception of some minor problems, heck we're even trying to emulate our Oasis skin on Monobook, but with content emphasis and no social network links.
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While I hate singling wikis out, I must. ...I'll start with W.B., which is in clear need of help. http://wikibound.info/Mother_%28video_game%29 (http://wikibound.info/Mother_%28video_game%29) Wut. The article on the first game in the series barely tells us anything. And you know, I figured the wiki thought once they joined they would come across an editor with more experience with the game. Never happened.
Yeah, I know. :/ This has pretty much upset me from day one that WB's lacking in dedicated editors that have actually... you know... played the games. I swear to god 90% of the active users have just watched a LP/researched a little bit. It's driving me insane. Unfortunately I have a hard time doing general overviews for games (I usually end up going into way too much detail and it turns tl;dr), so I haven't really touched the game pages all that much. *plays with thumbs nervously*
A reform team would be fantastic in theory, though. I have to wonder if there would be people who would be willing to and would actually set aside time, work hard on a wiki and improve pages. There's also the factor of being interested in the subject, or actually having played the subject games. If it would work out, it'd be great! But it would suck a lot if it didn't. :(
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Yeah, I know. :/ This has pretty much upset me from day one that WB's lacking in dedicated editors that have actually... you know... played the games. I swear to god 90% of the active users have just watched a LP/researched a little bit.
...which is maybe why I shouldn't be editing there. :/ On the other hand, this is the cost of assembling a wiki on a non-mainstream series.
Unfortunately I have a hard time doing general overviews for games (I usually end up going into way too much detail and it turns tl;dr), so I haven't really touched the game pages all that much. *plays with thumbs nervously*
Try to give the details that make the game unique without being too chunky in your paragraphs, I'd say.
But in any case, a roaming squad of experiecned wiki-editors might be a pretty handy thing.
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A team of editors is just something people have to decide to do.
I cannot stress enough the importance of NIWA's neutrality in the affairs of its members. NIWA is a forum and a hub, a simple venue, for its members to collaborate and improve themselves and each other. We don't need an official team, some NIWA Squadron, to go around doing stuff specifically in the name of NIWA. If such a squad comes to exist, then it functions like any regular group of editors on a Wiki would - they show up, and follow a Wiki's rules. They have no mandate from NIWA itself. They may have a mandate from its members, though. Hopefully that makes sense. I get very uneasy when you guys talking NIWA "doing" things to its members. We do not enforce anything and if I do nothing else as Coordinator, it will be to protect that functionality.
We cannot lose sight of what this thing does. It serves its members as far as they want it to. If a particular Wiki's staff does not care about being involved in NIWA, then that Wiki's userbase has absolutely no right to complain when they get nothing out of NIWA membership. You get back what you put in. If you want help, you have to ask for it. If you need assistance, you need to seek it. It will not seek you. NIWA is a simple link exchange with a pretty forum so long as its MEMBERS act like that's all it is. NIWA can be whatever its members want, but it can still never be more than it is.
Also, specifically for Wiki Bound and large articles: write whatever you write. If it ends up too big, whatever. Someone else can come back through and edit it down and remove details that seem irrelevant. You can then go back and add back the ones you know are relevant, and maybe even trim down the ones you found that aren't. It's a long process sometimes to make an article perfect. If Wiki Bound needs NIWA's help, though, Wiki Bound needs to seek that help. NIWA will not clean house for you.
As far as overall assessment goes, NIWA was at first more awesome than what we'd hoped, then it was a dismal failure in my eyes, and then we turned things around and NIWA is more formidable and useful and robust and strong than I ever imagined it would end up being. Of course, this is what we dreamed it would become, but I did not think it would actually happen. I imagine that has very little to do with me and my position, which I feel is serving its purpose well enough.
I'm specifically trying to establish the position more as a position of respect than of power, though the power has been utilized on very rare occasions. I'm trying to use the respect of the position and of me to influence NIWA to go in the direction I feel is best not only for NIWA as a collaborative effort, but for each Wiki individually involved in it. It's very hard. It takes a lot of patience, time, and insight. I am sure I have disappointed a fair share of you at some point, if not most or all of the time. My recent efforts at hearing the voice of regular users was in response to what someone else pointed out to me.
Recently, though, most people here have become fixated on the idea of how to define NIWA in terms relative to something else that already exists and makes sense, and we're politicizing the whole thing and making it too complicated. NIWA is not that complex. It is rather simple. Never lose sight of that simplicity, because that's where we will find the most colossal success.
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...Xizor, I did not say "o letz go barge into wikiz n edit evily kk?", relax. it's entirely in good faith, and what wiki does not want help? No duh we need to follow wiki polices. I'm not enforcing anyone or anything. It's an unofficial thing. Just wandering WikiMercenaries. Too much for you to handle?
If a wiki joined NIWA but did not care to be a part of the community, why join?
I did not ask for all of NIWA to join, just those who are willing. You do know "NIWA" means "Garden", right? As in, "Not seclusive wikis that would burn and be massively affected if some users decided to do something good"? Over dramatizing. Relax. There's no requirement.
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...Xizor, I did not say "o letz go barge into wikiz n edit evily kk?", relax. it's entirely in good faith, and what wiki does not want help? No duh we need to follow wiki polices. I'm not enforcing anyone or anything. It's an unofficial thing. Just wandering WikiMercenaries. Too much for you to handle?
If a wiki joined NIWA but did not care to be a part of the community, why join?
I did not ask for all of NIWA to join, just those who are willing. You do know "NIWA" means "Garden", right? As in, "Not seclusive wikis that would burn and be massively affected if some users decided to do something good"? Over dramatizing. Relax. There's no requirement.
I'm not really sure you read my post. I never said you said you wanted to barge in and smash heads. I understand it's in good faith. I believe, "They may have a mandate from its members, though. Hopefully that makes sense. I get very uneasy when you guys talking NIWA "doing" things to its members. We do not enforce anything and if I do nothing else as Coordinator, it will be to protect that functionality" meant:
- Anything can happen so long as the members of NIWA want it to happen, as in its wikis, not just a few random staffers
- NIWA has no power over its members, which means:
- Such a squad should not be officially "from NIWA" because that implies that the organization itself is taking action in regard to its members, which is not what we are, and that I will make sure that no matter what else I do or don't do, I will make sure that as long as I have the ability to keep things the way they are, that NIWA does not enforce or task anything, because that's critical to our success. Otherwise, we risk just becoming a disconnected Wiki Farm.
I find your rhetorical question "Too much for you to handle?" to be extremely rude and uncalled for, and I'd appreciate an apology, and a genuine effort to keep things civil. This is a discussion, not a riot, and I find it inappropriate to say things like that. I was not rude to you, and yet you responded with undue venom.
There are many reasons to join NIWA outside of the forum community here. In fact, I venture to guess most members of our Member Wikis have never once even visited the hub page, let alone the forums. Imagine how those users would feel if they all of a sudden saw some coordinated group of users doing things that maybe they didn't want, and then find out "Oh, they're from NIWA." What kind of message do you think that might send? You guys can certainly go and do that coordinated effort, but you will not be "from NIWA" - you will be yourselves. That's the key point I'm trying to make.
I really, in fact, am realizing your entire post was actually a gross overreaction to an egregious misinterpretation of just about everything I said. At no point was I agitated, angry, or even mildly excited. I was simply blunt. That's what NIWA needs from me: candid honesty of the wisdom I can impart. Hopefully now you understand what I meant with the things I said that have you so angry, and hopefully you also understand how I personally expect staff members to conduct themselves when using these boards, and that doesn't really just go for you. Everybody can stand to be a little more civil from time to time, myself included.
Otherwise, Nintendoguy basically hit the nail perfectly right on the head.
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I definitely did not expect these responses...
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...all I suggested was a group of people come together to help other wikis. That's all. Would it really do so much harm? So much damage? The NIWA is a GARDEN, where people should help each other freely, without asking. It's called, "being affiliated".
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Keywords being "help eachother freely", or "of their own will". Not being forced to by some "NIWA Team". If you want to go to the forums and put out a topic. "Who wants to help the DK Wiki?", I'm sure you'll get tons of responses and make a delightful team! But asking us to force members into doing this would be making NIWA into more than it is. We're like a telephone. You can call people, you can talk, you can agree to help eachother out on something. But when you try to get the telephone to do it itself, it doesn't work. Similarly, NIWA will let you talk with users and ask them to help but if you try to get NIWA to it itself, it won't work.
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What I had in thought was this:
-A bunch of members under the same group name
-Each member can go to whatever wikis they want
-They can edit the wiki however they want
-They can make one edit and leave if they want, or make 100 or 1000+, however many they feel.
-No standards to join and drop out freely
That's what I meant by "edit freely". If it bothers you all so much, I'll drop it. I'm beginning to give up anyway. I'm not the argumentative type who is willing to keep this thing up for 5 pages. Really. For me, a war won after a lengthy battle is a war lost for both sides. I see I'm just harming myself. I'd be willing to ask for help. I understand that. And wikis should be asking. But they're not, which is the problem (unless I missed it).
[spoiler=@Xizor]
Xizor, I feel retarded, I apologize... it happens, usually when I speak up when I would rather just let a thought die and move on, as stated above, I'm not the argumentative type, and as you can I'm inexperienced.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=@NintendoGuy]
P.S. This wasn't aimed to just help DK Wiki, Nintendoguy. Even though 1/7 of its articles are stubs, how about helping WiKirby recover from the big server problem?
[/spoiler]
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What I mean is, we could make such a team - you could even propose that you give them a rank on the wiki (or just an official name)! But I don't think we should send in people holding the name of NIWA behind them as some sort of "passport" - we should send in a bunch of willing editors who are just like any other user and have no ad/disadvantages because of the name they carry.
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...sure. I see (should of said that before =\) Then, what would be the team name?
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Go go NIWA RANGERS!
...why do I post?
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That would be awesome, but he said no "NIWA" in the name :-\
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WISH: Wiki Improvement Squad Helpers?
Random idea generation; I can come up with more if you want
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The DK Wilds 8)
(who gets the reference?)
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RWHA (pronounced "are-wah") - Random Wiki Helpers Alliance.
NES - Nintendo Editor Squad (or NIWA Editor Squad)
Eh, it's all I got.
I don't get the reference Nintendoguy.
@Miles: Good name, I like "WISH". But what do you think of my suggestions?
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I dunno, I just came up with something on the spot.
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Search it on MW :)
Anyways, they don't exactly need a special name. What SMW does is have a PipeProject, I think BP does this as well, and the people who sign up for that project work hard on its goals. You could advertise a project on these forums and then people would sign up and begin editing.
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Perhaps a better way to approach it is to not utilize the squad unless a Wiki comes and says, "I want the help of [insert final name here] please!" If it's a known option, perhaps they will utilize it. Similarly, the squad can look around wikis and if they think a Wiki needs their help, they can just ask.
Havoc, I appreciate your apology, but please don't get discouraged. Keep posting your ideas, even if they piss me off. I'll try and help you to refine your thoughts better in the future. :)
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So they'd be like
'We've had a server error and lost (random number of articles)'
'Would you like help from a group of NIWA editors who will restore your articles out of the generosity of their hearts'
'Yes please'
NIWA guys sort thing out
I like the idea, it shows what NIWA really is.
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Basically. Or:
Wiki-in-Need: "Oh man, we're having trouble getting some of our articles organized!"
NIWA Squad of Awesome: "Which ones? Perhaps our expert team of editors can help!"
Wiki-in-Need: "*lists off six hundred articles*"
NIWA Squad of Awesome: "Let's get cracking, boys! *does it* Done."
Wiki-No-Longer-in-Need: "Thanks, NIWA Squad of Awesome! We'll let you know if we ever need your help again!"
:P
If we are to organize such a team, perhaps it should be comprised of people sent from each Member, their "top editors" so to speak who are willing to take time away from their home wiki to help another wiki. Since the jobs would be "contracted," it's not like the home Wiki would lose a valuable editor most of the time. Even then, the squad could be semi-autonomous, and take care of its own affairs. It could have a leader who organizes which editors do what, where, and when, and then make it so that no wiki in particular loses its editor(s) for too long. That way, also, the rest of NIWA is helping to improve a part of NIWA, because when Zelda Wiki looks like s***, it affects the reputation of NIWA, which affects the reputation of any other member of NIWA by association.
The Squad would be sent where it is wanted, and would act as simply regular editors where it is not needed. Obviously, an editor's "origins" are irrelevant when they're just doing regular editing. However, I feel this squad should be more of "specialists" for when Wikis are having trouble achieving a goal, rather than when they need an entire article written up on a specific subject - that requires a dedicated fan. (The squad would then maybe come in and refine the article?)
I actually like the idea of this, though I have this sinking feeling I'm overlooking something very blatant.
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I don't see what's wrong with it as long as everyone understands what they're getting themselves into.
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Yeah, same here Miles.
I like the idea of the team consisting of the top editors of each wiki (16 editors as of now unless NWiki is excluded), but I also feel that we should let other people join if they want. I mean, seems kinda limited and some editors would feel left out. And yes we need to establish the whole "wandering simple editors".
We should probably either set up a forum on the NWiki or start a thread here (or both) as a "home base" for the Squad of Awesome to list members, wikis that need the help, those who don't anymore, help request center, and such. I like the name "squad of awesome" too.
Of course, just because a top of editor of the wiki specializes in it's subject doesn't always mean that they only know about the subject. Take for example myself. I've played Donkey Kong Country ever since I was young, I know practically every shortcut and bonus room. However, I own a couple Mario, Zelda, Kirby and (many) Pokemon games, and finished most of them. Though not as dedicate fan, I could write a somewhat specific article on, say, an enemy or boss.
We also need to learn the general writing style of each wiki, and how things are expected to be done, etc.
I imagine the main focus of the group would be taking care of stub articles.
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There's also the issue of mechanical processes, such as using unused images or tagging for deletion.
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Most wikis, such as Zelda Wiki, have things in place to prevent newcomers from coming in and doing too much as far as voting on Featured Articles or whatever, so that won't be a concern. I know it wasn't mentioned, but I just wanted to preemptively bring it up.
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Right.
We should probably jot down these things somewhere so those who're willing to join know the deal.
As I mentioned previously, there should be a "home base" where we can keep track of members, wikis, etc. But on here or on NWiki?
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Well...as long as the wiki in question's admins are approving it, I suppose it is alright. But I don't think membership should be restricted to a certain number of people - I think that:
a) It should be announced publicly and anyone can do it
b) It should be announced publicly in the NIWA Staff Boardroom so any staff can do it.
That way, it isn't restricted to having ~30 editors doing a huge job (i.e. 600 articles) and ~60 can do it instead, cutting the wait time.
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After reply #5 this thread becomes focused less on people's self evaluation post and more on a NIWA team discussion. This is the only real complaint I have with the forums, few topic titles match the discussion in them. At some point, someone will have to see that the thread took a turn from the topic and just begin a new one for that specific aspect. I like the team thing idea, and would try to find a little userbox for members on WiKirby. But I'm splitting this topic up to a new thread.
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Into the public boards, preferably.
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If I had more time, I'd do it right now, but alas, I do not, and you said you would. Good call, Ax. :P
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Well, as long as this is still here, I'd like to point out that derailed threads are not always a bad thing. Sure splitting them is the way to go, but look at what great ideas we came up with! So basically we shouldn't stem good discussion, just move it over :)
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Sure splitting them is the way to go, but look at what great ideas we came up with! So basically we shouldn't stem good discussion, just move it over :)
Yes. Shame most of us got our forum powers removed, so only a few of us can do that anymore :P
I blame HavocReaper48; damn him! Grrr (I did try to get things back on track, but to no avail).
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I'll take care of it when I get up in the morning if Ax hasn't by then. I'm just about to pass out. >_>
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I'm doing it now, so bear with me. I got sidetracked last night, but I'm going to go ahead and pretend I left it open for some opinions.
-Done, replies still have the subject as "Self Evaluation". forumnoob here, so one of you will need to fix that.
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I do agree that some of the wikis are in a bit more rough of shape than others, and it would be nice to see some people get together to help improve the quality of not just those who are truly in need, but of the quality of all wikis that ask for help.
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THIS IS A FORMER STAFF DISCUSSION NOW OPEN TO THE PUBLIC. ENJOY.
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You left out my post :'(
Anyways, ya, um, back on topic...the teams idea seems like a good thing. Just as long as isn't "endorsed by NIWA staff". Should we use this topic to declare when a wiki is requesting help?
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Sounds good.
Which means we need a starting point.
We should probably start with Wikirby, Wikibound, or DKWiki?
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I have no problem with any of the above; which wiki will be the first to request help?
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Personally, for WikiBound, I'd like to finish creating page outlines and templates so people can actually have something consistent to create articles off of.
Just putting that out there. Haha.
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Personally, for WikiBound, I'd like to finish creating page outlines and templates so people can actually have something consistent to create articles off of.
Just putting that out there. Haha.
Yes, don't forget my suggestion :)
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Attention peoples:
http://niwanetwork.org/wiki/index.php/Forum:CrossWiki_Team (http://niwanetwork.org/wiki/index.php/Forum:CrossWiki_Team)
Go.
Tina, start a forum about the templates and what you need on Wikibound so we know what exactly we're doing. Suggestions, etc.
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Is this only open to current NIWA members?
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The topic was started on a NIWA Reform board in the evil admin access-only area, so, pretty much.
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...Oh. I meant that I needed to get around to creating page outlines and templates myself, so the reform team could work with them. Better to do that before the team gets to mass page creations, so implementing templates wouldn't be another 500 edits. 'o'
What WikiBound really needs right now is articles (redlink killing), but in all honesty I would rather do templates myself. OTL
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Well, I signed up :)
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Not to step pm anyone's toes, but do you mind if i move the page? N Wiki currently doesn't have a forum extension like DK Wiki or SmashWiki, so the Forum: part is a little misleading.
It is free to go into the NintendoWiki namespace, like This page (http://niwanetwork.org/wiki/index.php/NintendoWiki:Interwiki_(Link)_Task_Force).
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Oh uh, sorry about that, used to those two wikis' standards... go ahead.
Yeah. But you should add the namespace, in case something more serious is needed to be discussed (not everything should be on these forums :-\ )
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I'm not particularily interested in this, but I'll throw in some possible names.
BROOM (Brilliance Rangers Of Our Maintainers)
SALAD (Subspacial Ambassadors Leaping Across Dimensions)
SWEEP (Super Wiki Editors Editing Pages)
TWEED (Those Who Extend Editing Duties)
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Oh uh, sorry about that, used to those two wikis' standards... go ahead.
Yeah. But you should add the namespace, in case something more serious is needed to be discussed (not everything should be on these forums :-\ )
Thank you for the suggestion, but i am not a fan of in-wiki forums.
Also, check out This page (http://niwanetwork.org/wiki/index.php/NintendoWiki:Community_portal#Outside-Wiki_Communication).
Anyway, i moved the page.
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Oh uh, sorry about that, used to those two wikis' standards... go ahead.
Yeah. But you should add the namespace, in case something more serious is needed to be discussed (not everything should be on these forums :-\ )
Thank you for the suggestion, but i am not a fan of in-wiki forums.
Agreed, in-wiki forums clog up the recent changes with stuff that can be done on outside forums.
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Just a suggestion, since it's what I'm used to... :-\ Alright.
Anyway, we gotta spread the word and start making our mark. Let's get cracking.
Wikibound is our first request, so, let's go.
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Was it really necessary to send an email about this? It just makes it seem like it is endorsed by NIWA, despite the contrary being stated all throughout this thread.
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The e-mail kinda pissed me off. Don't abuse the forums system.
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I was a little amused by the fact that I received an e-mail on this matter.
Also, the idea is still rather small-scale, IMO. Maybe it might be better to try and get the member wikis to advertise the program? A simple item put in the news "Inter-wiki editor group being formed to help other NIWA wikis in need..."
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So when NIWA is doing nothing, uninvolved in its members, it gets criticized for that apathy.
But when it gets involved in its members and their doing, and spreads information about new potential resources for its members, it's somehow domineering and "abusing" a system?
You people are impossible. @_@ See things for what they are, not for what you decide they mean. At no point did the email "endorse" this effort; it was merely informing everybody of a new opportunity to help at NIWA, or to be helped by NIWA. The members ARE NIWA - NIWA is nothing more than its members and what they create.
Good luck, Havoc. It would seem my attempts at assisting your efforts are in vain - let me know if there's anything you need from me in the future regarding this, as I will not be going out on a limb for it again just to face ludicrous backlash.
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I wasn't informed about the emailing :-\
Sheesh, it's INFORMATIVE, not ENDORSATIVE (if that's a word).
The e-mail kinda pissed me off. Don't abuse the forums system.
I did not send the emails nor did anyone here so don't direct it at people. It clearly says "The NIWA Community Forums Team", not "HavocReaper" at the end of the email.
Was it really necessary to send an email about this? It just makes it seem like it is endorsed by NIWA, despite the contrary being stated all throughout this thread.
"to support, to back, to give one's approval to..."
--Wikionary article on "Endorse"
The email did not approve or support the member gaining of the group, rather just informed people of the cause. And again, I did not know of the emails until I saw this now.
I mean, honestly, why not tell people about it? In any case this thing isn't supposed to be secretive. We need every member we can get. If anything the emailing saved members the time of advertising on the wikis themselves.
Maxite, I like that idea.
Xizor, sure thing.
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Guys, stop getting hung up over words like "endorse" or "support" or "suggest" - it doesn't matter. Nothing NIWA does is compulsory, enforced, or otherwise forcibly pushed on any member. Using the email system of the forums to inform members about this opportunity was not abusive or inappropriate.
I endorse this group as a viable option for a Wiki to get help. As such, if NIWA members use it, then how is that not "NIWA endorsing" it? Seriously. Let's get real here.
Can we just stop losing sight of what something aims to do, which in this case is help everybody, by distracting things with irrelevant declarations of what NIWA can and cannot do? It does what its members want, which means it can do anything so long as the members want it. I'm really worried that NIWA is going to get derailed if we keep focusing on things like that, which ultimately don't matter and are just ranting points. We need to prioritize.
As far as this team goes, I'd love to see Wikis taking advantage of this. If there are freelance editors with nothing better to do, then why not use them? Also, I think this topic should not be used to request help - we should keep that over at N-Wiki maybe? Otherwise, we should start a new topic dedicated SOLELY to asking for help, and discussing things therein, as this topic is too chaotic and has too many pages that don't pertain to Wikis asking for help.
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For my part, I'm glad to see this going ahead, and I hope it turns out to be helpful and productive.
One observation I'd make though; the project page (http://niwanetwork.org/wiki/index.php/NintendoWiki:CrossWiki_Team) seems to set the team's aim mainly as reducing the number of stubs. I feel like that's not really an ideal area for such a team to focus on. In my experience, the growth of stubs into full articles is normally a gradual and incremental process, not a quick blitz attack. But more than that, de-stubbing usually requires extensive subject knowledge. These articles are stubs for a reason; because the majority of the experiences editors at a given wiki don't know enough about the subject to expand on them. That being the case, I don't see how a generalist team like this (whose primary strengths are enthusiasm/hard work and skill with wikicode) can hope to have better subject-specific knowledge than the wikis regular contributors?
It just seems to me like there could be more practical (but maybe less obvious) goals to set. For example, Zelda Wiki has an entire category of Articles needing attention (http://zeldawiki.org/Category:Articles_needing_attention), with subsections like reorganization, neutrality issues and addition of sources. These are the kind of things which can be done with even minimal knowledge of the subject.
Another example which comes to mind is the case of DKWiki; after their move from Wikia, I noticed a lot of their pages still link back to Wikia help guides, or use interwiki link prefixes which no longer work. Again, that's the kind of laborious cleanup which this team could excel at.
I don't want to come off as negative at all, just hoping to give you guys some food for thought on where you could best focus your efforts ;)
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Be nice if this also helped out with developing wikis/non-NIWA members as well. I'm not really looking for a group of editors to come around and fix stub count (although that would be nice), but I do would like help with making sure that other things are in order, like making sure licenses and attributions are in order and correct.
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It took a few weeks to hunt down all those wikia links at Nookipedia.
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It took a few weeks to hunt down all those wikia links at Nookipedia.
do you mean links-to-other-wikis, and those wikis are on wikia?
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It took a few weeks to hunt down all those wikia links at Nookipedia.
do you mean links-to-other-wikis, and those wikis are on wikia?
I think he means all of the things linking to Wikia's main community page (community.wikia.com)
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It took a few weeks to hunt down all those wikia links at Nookipedia.
do you mean links-to-other-wikis, and those wikis are on wikia?
I think he means all of the things linking to Wikia's main community page (community.wikia.com)
Ah, that make sense. I just started exploring a wiki we got off Wikia , and there are a lot of lot of links to Wikia community central.
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...I would've thought it's fairly obvious he means links to any Wikia wiki (w:[c:*:]*).
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...I would've thought it's fairly obvious he means links to any Wikia wiki (w:[c:*:]*).
you'd think so......
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Another example of something I think this team could help out with; Mario Wiki's "Rewrite Requested" category (http://www.mariowiki.com/Category:Rewrite_Requested). Hundreds of articles which need rewriting to conform with the wiki's quality standards. :eekdance:
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...I would've thought it's fairly obvious he means links to any Wikia wiki (w:[c:*:]*).
you'd think so......
I don't think links to wikias should be cut out. We're not anti-wikia.
Another example of something I think this team could help out with; Mario Wiki's "Rewrite Requested" category (http://www.mariowiki.com/Category:Rewrite_Requested). Hundreds of articles which need rewriting to conform with the wiki's quality standards. :eekdance:
Oh ya...I forgot about that category...
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I don't think links to wikias should be cut out. We're not anti-wikia.
That's not the reason to cut the links; you cut the links because once you're out of Wikia's interwiki system they don't work anymore and WantedPages becomes a mess. You could always make new interwiki links, but the links would have to be changed anyway, so in any case all of them would have to be edited.
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I don't think links to wikias should be cut out. We're not anti-wikia.
That's not the reason to cut the links; you cut the links because once you're out of Wikia's interwiki system they don't work anymore and WantedPages becomes a mess. You could always make new interwiki links, but the links would have to be changed anyway, so in any case all of them would have to be edited.
Of course expanding the links to html instead of interwiki.
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Most of the links change from Wikia to NIWA ones. I remember doing a little of that on Pikipedia.
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No, if you set up w: as an interwiki link to Wikia, they all work fine after moving from Wikia. It's rather ^this, the fact that most of these links are covered by other NIWA wikis, that makes it good to change them in most cases.
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However, Pikipedia's WantedPages (http://www.pikminwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&limit=500&offset=0) seem to have quite a few Wikia and German links (and the German Pikmin Wiki is on Wikia).
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Hmm... Those links are all fine (green), but still appear in Wanted Pages - any ideas why? I never noticed that, just assumed they wouldn't be there if they worked. (BTW, all those subpage links are, I was told once, due to a bug in MW.)
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The server cache still needs to update, it'll be fine.
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I'm sure it's been like that since the move, which is a good few months. Everything else dependent on cache or stuff in the job queue has long since fixed itself.
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you may need to do what's called a "Null Edit". This is when you save a page, but have changed nothing about it.
It forces the page to be updated, along with all the related linking tables.
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...Apparently nothing links to any of them, so there's nothing to edit; and it's not like doing anything to the targets will make any difference, since they're interwiki links.
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OK, I now think there is a real problem; before I had just dismissed it as a server lag but I did some detective work and found the problem.
The {{#ifexist}} function on this page (http://www.pikminwiki.com/Template:Notes) is messed up.
EDIT: From what I understand, {{#ifexist}} is "if it exists|if it does not exist" and you have a link on the "if it does not exist" side.
EDIT 2: Through several edits, I managed to move the coding around so that if it says {{notes|treasure}} and the stuff doesn't exist, the links won't appear. However even though the links don't appear, they still somehow manage to wind up on Special:Wantedpages, so, I am going to make an educated guess and say that there is no way to have that template without the links. Either {{#ifexist}} was never meant to be used in transclusions (I really doubt that) or {{#ifeq}} and {{#ifexist}} are not able to be used together (more likely).
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No, when {{{1}}} == treasure, /journal is guaranteed to exist. We include /journal (NPC) too if it exists. I think it's just the combination of conditionals with transclusions that causes some bug to make them appear in Wanted Pages; I never bothered testing since the fact someone else knew about it when I asked made me think it'd get fixed at some point.
I'll look further into the exact causes of this when I get the time, then, and see if there are any open bug reports for it or anything similar.
(Note for those confused: this is about the subpages listed in Wanted Pages, while the conversation above was about the interwiki links.)
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There should be a maintenance script that can fix this. Have you looked through those yet?
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http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:RefreshLinks.php
Sounds related-ish to some of the issues here...
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I already said that it was a problem with the mediawiki and not with incorrect coding in my EDIT 2
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Wait, why would we think you caused a problem with an edit you made after it started?
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EDIT 2: Through several edits, I managed to move the coding around so that if it says {{notes|treasure}} and the stuff doesn't exist, the links won't appear. However even though the links don't appear, they still somehow manage to wind up on Special:Wantedpages...
Did you wait for Wantedpages to recache? Pikipedia's Wanted Pages only refreshes once a day at 09:40 GMT.
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...Okay, apparently simply using #ifexist for a page that doesn't exist causes it to end up in Wanted pages
(tested on 1.16.0: page (http://testing.i-know-nothing.co.cc/wiki/Include_subpage), Wanted pages (http://testing.i-know-nothing.co.cc/wiki/Special:WantedPages)).
Edit: This bug (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12019) looks like it.
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1. My "EDIT 2" was the second edit made to my original post
EDIT 2: Through several edits, I managed to move the coding around so that if it says {{notes|treasure}} and the stuff doesn't exist, the links won't appear. However even though the links don't appear, they still somehow manage to wind up on Special:Wantedpages, so, I am going to make an educated guess and say that there is no way to have that template without the links. Either {{#ifexist}} was never meant to be used in transclusions (I really doubt that) or {{#ifeq}} and {{#ifexist}} are not able to be used together (more likely).
That would be my "EDIT 2"
2. Reboot: Yes, I did.
3. Greenpickle: I think it's been established that it's a bug >_>
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I know; I was the one who said that. I was just letting people know, now that I've found out, more precisely what the bug is, and where the report is.
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I Want everyone to know Pikmin Fanon has one already. The Interwiki Relations Team. http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/PikminFanon:Interwiki_Relations_Team_Portal
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I Want everyone to know Pikmin Fanon has one already. The Interwiki Relations Team. http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/PikminFanon:Interwiki_Relations_Team_Portal
OOOO! What does it do? :eekdance:
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Oh, you were using #ifexist. I remember finding it and thinking it was really useful, attempting to put it in use on Bulbapedia, then being told not to use it because it messed up WantedPages. Based on how long that bug has been known for, I don't expect it to be fixed in the near future. I recommend making all that coding manual (so {{notes|monster|NPC}} or {{notes|monster}} etc.)
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Blech.
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Blech.
???
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I recommend making all that coding manual (so {{notes|monster|NPC}} or {{notes|monster}} etc.)
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I recommend making all that coding manual (so {{notes|monster|NPC}} or {{notes|monster}} etc.)
I don't see what's wrong with the suggestion.
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It would require editing the template and a good number of the hundreds of pages that include it.
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It would require editing the template and a good number of the hundreds of pages that include it.
ah. Ok. Makes sense now.
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It would clean up WantedPages, but if you don't mind having all of those false wanted links...
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Yeah, I know; I wasn't saying I wouldn't get around to doing it, just that it's obviously not a favourable solution. We wouldn't have the flexibility we have now: enemy pages would have to specify every type of notes they have data for, instead of just checking the data (subpages) directly.
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Yeah, I know; I wasn't saying I wouldn't get around to doing it, just that it's obviously not a favourable solution. We wouldn't have the flexibility we have now: enemy pages would have to specify every type of notes they have data for, instead of just checking the data (subpages) directly.
Could you include these lists in templates? (e.g., instead of {{{notes|monster|NPC}}}, have {{notes|{{TpltX}}}}}.)
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Yeah, I know; I wasn't saying I wouldn't get around to doing it, just that it's obviously not a favourable solution. We wouldn't have the flexibility we have now: enemy pages would have to specify every type of notes they have data for, instead of just checking the data (subpages) directly.
Well, if you don't want to have to edit a whole bunch of pages, you could just put a huge #switch in the template, where you list all of the articles with NPC subpages. #ifexist is incredibly useful, but unfortunately hurts WantedPages, which is very important on a wiki.