Messages

101

NIWA Discussion / A self-evaluation

« on: December 29, 2010, 08:43:23 PM »

Most wikis, such as Zelda Wiki, have things in place to prevent newcomers from coming in and doing too much as far as voting on Featured Articles or whatever, so that won't be a concern. I know it wasn't mentioned, but I just wanted to preemptively bring it up.

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NIWA Discussion / A self-evaluation

« on: December 29, 2010, 01:47:16 PM »

Basically. Or:

Wiki-in-Need: "Oh man, we're having trouble getting some of our articles organized!"
NIWA Squad of Awesome: "Which ones? Perhaps our expert team of editors can help!"
Wiki-in-Need: "*lists off six hundred articles*"
NIWA Squad of Awesome: "Let's get cracking, boys! *does it* Done."
Wiki-No-Longer-in-Need: "Thanks, NIWA Squad of Awesome! We'll let you know if we ever need your help again!"



If we are to organize such a team, perhaps it should be comprised of people sent from each Member, their "top editors" so to speak who are willing to take time away from their home wiki to help another wiki. Since the jobs would be "contracted," it's not like the home Wiki would lose a valuable editor most of the time. Even then, the squad could be semi-autonomous, and take care of its own affairs. It could have a leader who organizes which editors do what, where, and when, and then make it so that no wiki in particular loses its editor(s) for too long. That way, also, the rest of NIWA is helping to improve a part of NIWA, because when Zelda Wiki looks like s***, it affects the reputation of NIWA, which affects the reputation of any other member of NIWA by association.

The Squad would be sent where it is wanted, and would act as simply regular editors where it is not needed. Obviously, an editor's "origins" are irrelevant when they're just doing regular editing. However, I feel this squad should be more of "specialists" for when Wikis are having trouble achieving a goal, rather than when they need an entire article written up on a specific subject - that requires a dedicated fan. (The squad would then maybe come in and refine the article?)

I actually like the idea of this, though I have this sinking feeling I'm overlooking something very blatant.

103

NIWA Discussion / A self-evaluation

« on: December 29, 2010, 02:27:17 AM »

Perhaps a better way to approach it is to not utilize the squad unless a Wiki comes and says, "I want the help of [insert final name here] please!" If it's a known option, perhaps they will utilize it. Similarly, the squad can look around wikis and if they think a Wiki needs their help, they can just ask.

Havoc, I appreciate your apology, but please don't get discouraged. Keep posting your ideas, even if they piss me off. I'll try and help you to refine your thoughts better in the future.

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NIWA Discussion / Re: Improving NIWA

« on: December 27, 2010, 01:10:29 AM »

NIWA's only real true interest is to make sure that can always happen.

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NIWA Discussion / Re: DAWN - Developmental Alliance for Wikis on Nintendo

« on: December 26, 2010, 08:18:22 PM »

"NIWA should focus on NIWA" means NIWA should focus on its own interests. That includes helping developing Wikis, which was one of our original intents and purposes.

106

NIWA Discussion / A self-evaluation

« on: December 26, 2010, 01:17:16 PM »

...Xizor, I did not say "o letz go barge into wikiz n edit evily kk?", relax. it's entirely in good faith, and what wiki does not want help? No duh we need to follow wiki polices. I'm not enforcing anyone or anything. It's an unofficial thing. Just wandering WikiMercenaries. Too much for you to handle?

If a wiki joined NIWA but did not care to be a part of the community, why join?

I did not ask for all of NIWA to join, just those who are willing. You do know "NIWA" means "Garden", right? As in, "Not seclusive wikis that would burn and be massively affected if some users decided to do something good"? Over dramatizing. Relax. There's no requirement.

I'm not really sure you read my post. I never said you said you wanted to barge in and smash heads. I understand it's in good faith. I believe, "They may have a mandate from its members, though. Hopefully that makes sense. I get very uneasy when you guys talking NIWA "doing" things to its members. We do not enforce anything and if I do nothing else as Coordinator, it will be to protect that functionality" meant:

- Anything can happen so long as the members of NIWA want it to happen, as in its wikis, not just a few random staffers
- NIWA has no power over its members, which means:
- Such a squad should not be officially "from NIWA" because that implies that the organization itself is taking action in regard to its members, which is not what we are, and that I will make sure that no matter what else I do or don't do, I will make sure that as long as I have the ability to keep things the way they are, that NIWA does not enforce or task anything, because that's critical to our success. Otherwise, we risk just becoming a disconnected Wiki Farm.

I find your rhetorical question "Too much for you to handle?" to be extremely rude and uncalled for, and I'd appreciate an apology, and a genuine effort to keep things civil. This is a discussion, not a riot, and I find it inappropriate to say things like that. I was not rude to you, and yet you responded with undue venom.

There are many reasons to join NIWA outside of the forum community here. In fact, I venture to guess most members of our Member Wikis have never once even visited the hub page, let alone the forums. Imagine how those users would feel if they all of a sudden saw some coordinated group of users doing things that maybe they didn't want, and then find out "Oh, they're from NIWA." What kind of message do you think that might send? You guys can certainly go and do that coordinated effort, but you will not be "from NIWA" - you will be yourselves. That's the key point I'm trying to make.

I really, in fact, am realizing your entire post was actually a gross overreaction to an egregious misinterpretation of just about everything I said. At no point was I agitated, angry, or even mildly excited. I was simply blunt. That's what NIWA needs from me: candid honesty of the wisdom I can impart. Hopefully now you understand what I meant with the things I said that have you so angry, and hopefully you also understand how I personally expect staff members to conduct themselves when using these boards, and that doesn't really just go for you. Everybody can stand to be a little more civil from time to time, myself included.

Otherwise, Nintendoguy basically hit the nail perfectly right on the head.

107

NIWA Discussion / Re: Improving NIWA

« on: December 25, 2010, 08:35:15 PM »

"Public Relations Coordinator" What do you think I am?

I agree, though, that there has been misinformation, but with such a large and often chaotic project, it was unavoidable. We're reigning it in. Remember that NIWA only started in February, guys, and underwent a massive reform effort, mostly from July through October, but that still continues today.

108

NIWA Discussion / Re: Whatever happened to SEIWA?

« on: December 25, 2010, 11:10:23 AM »

I'm a fan of a lot more than Nintendo, but it would be prudent to focus on NIWA first, or to instead go off and do these other ventures and not try to do both.

Ultimately what I'm saying is that I'd like for us to worry about NIWA first and foremost, rather than non-existent organizations, here at the NIWA forums....

Peace and love to the cat who reported me to myself. I replied via email.

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NIWA Discussion / Re: Improving NIWA

« on: December 25, 2010, 09:18:17 AM »

Given that we created the position about two months ago, it's a bit soon to discuss getting rid of me.

(A joke, in case someone's typing up a raging reply at this very moment. Let's keep ideas flowing.)

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NIWA Discussion / Re: NIWA improvement Idea (PLEASE READ)

« on: December 25, 2010, 09:17:25 AM »

Am I the only one who thought, "Wikia" when reading about this?

I like the idea of OpenID, but any wiki can choose not to use it. I think that making use of it in such a way that a NIWA Member not using it faces disadvantage is the wrong path to go down, but is easy to go down if we aren't careful.

This is a good idea, but it would require precision and flexibility. It would be very hard, technical issues aside.

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NIWA Discussion / Re: DAWN - Developmental Alliance for Wikis on Nintendo

« on: December 25, 2010, 09:14:21 AM »

It's just frustrating for us on Staff because we are blatantly told you either A.) Think we're incompetent or B.) Think we're just working to boost our egos.

There is no imbalance of "secrecy" - we discuss normal staff things in our private staff boards. I've been on many website staffs, and this one is actually much more open than most.

We offer a lot of help to any wiki who wants it. I get a lot of emails and we try to help everybody, whether they plan to become independent or not, if they're Nintendo-related or not. We recently decided to affiliate with a Simpson's Wiki.

I wish you luck on your project, but I feel like your particular grievances against NIWA are not founded in any sort of facts about the organization.

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NIWA Discussion / Re: Your wiki doing anything special for the holidays?

« on: December 23, 2010, 11:24:49 AM »

Zelda Wiki has Christmas decorations. =D

113

NIWA Discussion / Re: I'm in!

« on: December 23, 2010, 11:21:29 AM »

And "Has the staff gone mad?" really epitomizes why we don't make the staff boards public, and why we don't make it known everyone we consider. Every email I get requesting membership or affiliation gets shared with the staff and discussed and considered. Just because we discuss it does not mean we go through with it. This particular case is as of yet undecided what the best course of action is. We have a lot of options outside of simply accepting or rejecting membership.

I really grow weary of the insulting remarks, whether you intended them that way or not, Maxite. Soon, I will grow weary of listening to you at all. I'm only human, after all.

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NIWA Discussion / Re: Whatever happened to SEIWA?

« on: December 23, 2010, 11:19:53 AM »

What are you guys even talking about? Does SEIWA even exist? Does anything else even exist? Is NIWA finished? Are you finished? What else do you have to deal with? Start thinking, guys, rather than just talking about stuff that sounds cool.

These other "IWA" organizations needs to come up on their own. We cannot make them. We SHOULDN'T make them. NIWA worked because of why we made it, and we did not make it for no reason. So far, I see no reason why any other IWA should exist if the Wikis who would join it don't seem to want it enough to do it themselves.

115

NIWA Discussion / A self-evaluation

« on: December 23, 2010, 11:15:50 AM »

A team of editors is just something people have to decide to do.

I cannot stress enough the importance of NIWA's neutrality in the affairs of its members. NIWA is a forum and a hub, a simple venue, for its members to collaborate and improve themselves and each other. We don't need an official team, some NIWA Squadron, to go around doing stuff specifically in the name of NIWA. If such a squad comes to exist, then it functions like any regular group of editors on a Wiki would - they show up, and follow a Wiki's rules. They have no mandate from NIWA itself. They may have a mandate from its members, though. Hopefully that makes sense. I get very uneasy when you guys talking NIWA "doing" things to its members. We do not enforce anything and if I do nothing else as Coordinator, it will be to protect that functionality.

We cannot lose sight of what this thing does. It serves its members as far as they want it to. If a particular Wiki's staff does not care about being involved in NIWA, then that Wiki's userbase has absolutely no right to complain when they get nothing out of NIWA membership. You get back what you put in. If you want help, you have to ask for it. If you need assistance, you need to seek it. It will not seek you. NIWA is a simple link exchange with a pretty forum so long as its MEMBERS act like that's all it is. NIWA can be whatever its members want, but it can still never be more than it is.

Also, specifically for Wiki Bound and large articles: write whatever you write. If it ends up too big, whatever. Someone else can come back through and edit it down and remove details that seem irrelevant. You can then go back and add back the ones you know are relevant, and maybe even trim down the ones you found that aren't. It's a long process sometimes to make an article perfect. If Wiki Bound needs NIWA's help, though, Wiki Bound needs to seek that help. NIWA will not clean house for you.

As far as overall assessment goes, NIWA was at first more awesome than what we'd hoped, then it was a dismal failure in my eyes, and then we turned things around and NIWA is more formidable and useful and robust and strong than I ever imagined it would end up being. Of course, this is what we dreamed it would become, but I did not think it would actually happen. I imagine that has very little to do with me and my position, which I feel is serving its purpose well enough.

I'm specifically trying to establish the position more as a position of respect than of power, though the power has been utilized on very rare occasions. I'm trying to use the respect of the position and of me to influence NIWA to go in the direction I feel is best not only for NIWA as a collaborative effort, but for each Wiki individually involved in it. It's very hard. It takes a lot of patience, time, and insight. I am sure I have disappointed a fair share of you at some point, if not most or all of the time. My recent efforts at hearing the voice of regular users was in response to what someone else pointed out to me.

Recently, though, most people here have become fixated on the idea of how to define NIWA in terms relative to something else that already exists and makes sense, and we're politicizing the whole thing and making it too complicated. NIWA is not that complex. It is rather simple. Never lose sight of that simplicity, because that's where we will find the most colossal success.

116

NIWA Discussion / Re: Improving NIWA

« on: December 23, 2010, 10:55:41 AM »

You guys are making this way too complicated. Seriously.

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NIWA Discussion / Re: Improving NIWA

« on: December 22, 2010, 01:58:43 AM »

But NIWA is still only the sum of its parts, not a separate part altogether.

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NIWA Discussion / Re: Improving NIWA

« on: December 20, 2010, 10:11:48 AM »

The thing, Cip, is that what you're saying has to be voluntary. All wikis could choose to participate as such, but they never would have to. That's the key here. NIWA does not enforce anything.

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NIWA Discussion / Re: Improving NIWA

« on: December 17, 2010, 10:34:19 PM »

I'm pretty sure it's any sensible staff member's opinion to abhor pointless bureaucracy. Effective bureaucracy is simple and only implemented when it's needed.

ZW actually functions very differently from NIWA, and very few of its guiding principles are able to be applied here. Afterall...it's a Wiki.

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NIWA Discussion / Re: Improving NIWA

« on: December 16, 2010, 11:00:42 AM »

There is no set number of people from a Wiki we require or cap. If a Wiki wants to have only 2 reps, while another wants to have 10, then whatever. It's about pooling ideas, not politics.

Our staff is really not political. We abhor bureaucracy, and politics. As Ax said, most decisions are unanimous: either something fails and fails hard, or something is a runaway success. Even when we voted on the issue of creating the Coordinator position, we had clear unity to create the job, and then between the three people who were nominated, I was the clear choice, even if not 100%. And since then, I've made my duty here to not only do what those who voted for me expected and wanted, but to reassure those who didn't vote for me that I won't let them down. It's not about politics, it's just about NIWA. If Zelda Wiki somehow managed to comprise 33% of all NIWA Staffers, then it wouldn't matter. NIWA doesn't govern its wikis. It doesn't enforce anything. ZW cares about NIWA, and all that means is that their caring would get heard a little louder. Even then, that's part of what we have the Coordinator for. In a clear event of contentious bickering, I could step in and take control of a situation.

I feel like it's assumed we're incompetent or something.