121
NIWA Discussion / Re: Wikia makes another offer for Bulbapedia - Epic Fail
« on: December 15, 2010, 06:55:11 PM »
I'm an admin at Bacon Wiki. I was going to apply for NIWA Membership next week.
Show Posts
This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.
122
NIWA Discussion / Re: Improving NIWA
« on: December 15, 2010, 04:33:06 AM »I personally would like to know what exactly is potentially barring two wikis of the same series to join (i.e. two Pokemon Wikis)
The idea that if, just as an example, Bulbapedia worked hard and got into NIWA first, before Pokewikimania (made up name for nonexistent Pokemon wiki), then Bulbapedia obviously expects certain benefits from being a NIWA member. Adding a second Pokemon wiki dilutes those benefits, and only does so for Bulbapedia, while all other wikis continue to enjoy their status as the only wiki for their franchise. To do this against the will of Bulbapedia would be completely irrational and unfair - it's simply about seniority. If Bulbapedia consented to Pokewikimania's inclusion, then the issue is completely negated. It's only to benefit the wiki that got here first. In the event of two wikis from one franchise trying to join at once, or even when another wiki tries to join of the same franchise as a member, we try to encourage merging. This way, ONE source benefits from ALL that both wikis have to offer. It's the best option as far as viewers go.
I have always supported the One-Wiki-Per-Franchise Policy in that it's up to the current member from that franchise. Zelda Wiki would have to give its consent to add a new wiki about Zelda, even if the rest of NIWA wanted to add that member. Super Mario Wiki I believe had to give its consent for Donkey Kong wiki to join - I could be remembering incorrectly. Someone else on staff feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that one.
As far as community goes, NIWA was never intended to govern its members or supplant their communities. One of the big things with Zelda Wiki is that Zelda Fansites operate it, and they each have their own communities that contribute to Zelda Wiki, and Zelda Wiki has its own community as well that does not replace any of those sites' communities. Similarly, Zelda Wiki's community remains distinctly separate from the forum community here. As a whole, though, they are all a part of the grand, all-inclusive "NIWA Community" and that's just the nature of what we've set up. If I had to compare it to a government, and I hate to, I'd say it's like a Confederation. However, we do not govern. NIWA does not enforce anything on its members. The only thing it does is protect its own reputation. Obviously, if NIWA wants someone to do something for "quality of reputation" then there is room for abuse. The simple solution is that we don't abuse it. I mean, how hard is that?
If that didn't make any sense, and I imagine parts of it made no sense, please don't hesitate to ask me to clarify. I've worked 16 hours in the last 48, and got about 2 hours of sleep between the two shifts.
123
NIWA Discussion / Improving NIWA
« on: December 14, 2010, 10:52:43 AM »
This thread differs from the suggestion thread in a very important way: this thread is to simply post ideas on how you think the staff can work to improve NIWA in fundamental ways, or to ask questions about things you think are fundamentally important to be answered.
Some basic guidelines for this thread:
- Respect is not an option. We as a staff work very hard to maintain not only NIWA, but our own sites as well. I personally am the Coordinator here, am a Bureaucrat at Zelda Wiki, and own Legendofzelda.com and manage it daily. I have a lot on my plate online, and that's not even counting things outside of the internet. I'm not the only one.
- Do not make demands or ask impatient questions. This goes along with the being respectful thing, but understand that just because you make a post in this thread does not mean that what you said should happen will happen. I imagine that if what you say we should do can't or won't be done, a reason will be given.
- Unless you are on Staff, please do not answer other people's questions. This will just lead to confusion if you end up being wrong, even if you know you know the answer. This thread is more about the Staff communicating with non-Staff than everybody, staff or not, giving ideas together. That's the Suggestions Thread.
- If you are posting about something you think is simply a problem that needs fixing, and have no viable solutions, do not make it an attack. Clearly state what you feel the problem is, and ask how to fix it. Let's try to make sure we only try to tackle one issue at a time.
I'm going to be very clear: If this thread becomes disrespectful, angry, or any form of unproductive or unruly, I will lock it and that will be the end of it. I hope, however, it does not come to that. I doubt it will. I just don't want to hear arguing later if it does, and I am forced to lock. As long as everybody, non-Staff and Staff alike, remain respectful and patient, this thread will be one of the best on the forum.
Now, let's get to talking.
Some basic guidelines for this thread:
- Respect is not an option. We as a staff work very hard to maintain not only NIWA, but our own sites as well. I personally am the Coordinator here, am a Bureaucrat at Zelda Wiki, and own Legendofzelda.com and manage it daily. I have a lot on my plate online, and that's not even counting things outside of the internet. I'm not the only one.
- Do not make demands or ask impatient questions. This goes along with the being respectful thing, but understand that just because you make a post in this thread does not mean that what you said should happen will happen. I imagine that if what you say we should do can't or won't be done, a reason will be given.
- Unless you are on Staff, please do not answer other people's questions. This will just lead to confusion if you end up being wrong, even if you know you know the answer. This thread is more about the Staff communicating with non-Staff than everybody, staff or not, giving ideas together. That's the Suggestions Thread.
- If you are posting about something you think is simply a problem that needs fixing, and have no viable solutions, do not make it an attack. Clearly state what you feel the problem is, and ask how to fix it. Let's try to make sure we only try to tackle one issue at a time.
I'm going to be very clear: If this thread becomes disrespectful, angry, or any form of unproductive or unruly, I will lock it and that will be the end of it. I hope, however, it does not come to that. I doubt it will. I just don't want to hear arguing later if it does, and I am forced to lock. As long as everybody, non-Staff and Staff alike, remain respectful and patient, this thread will be one of the best on the forum.
Now, let's get to talking.
124
Membership and Affiliate Requests / Re: New Alliance Requests
« on: December 14, 2010, 10:44:54 AM »
NIWA does not have internal problems. There are obviously things that need to be resolved, but we will never reach perfection and if we sat around waiting for it to happen before we started getting new members, we'd never get a new member again. In fact, getting new Wikis involved increases the inflow of ideas, and perhaps the solution to one of our problems lies in the mind of someone from a Wiki we have not yet added?
NIWA should always continue to grow, always continue to improve, never stagnate, and never be finished. Much like a Wiki itself, actually. There is always something that can be made better.
As for GameHiker, I don't think they were "promised" a spot, and even if they were, it's been a long time. They should be admitted if they want to be, and if we think they're a good addition to NIWA. I've always said that a new member should not be a drain on NIWA - other members do not need to worry about trying to hold up another member when it joins. Obviously, we help each other when we're in need AFTER joining, if an emergency arises or something, but a Wiki should not enter with the mindset of "NIWA is here to pick me up and do magic for me, and I'll just sit back and watch it happen." A certain level of quality and dedication is expected from all members, regardless of what one or a few staff member may have told a wiki such at GH in the past.
To be clear, I'm not saying we shouldn't add them. I'm simply saying we cannot add them no matter what, because we need to make sure they're good for us.
As far as a place for everybody to voice their opinions on what we can improve on, let me just say that NIWA is very, very well off, and very healthy. There are many things to fix, but overall there are no inherent flaws in our system. There were, but we underwent a massive reform effort starting in July that, of course, still continues. Of course, all ideas are welcome, but I must be very, very clear. When I make this thread, it is not an invitation to be rude, demanding, or bossy. It is an invitation to be heard. Respect is not optional. We have a staff of over thirty people, all from different communities, all with great ideas, great minds, and great talents. We are not incompetent. We are simply not perfect.
I will create such a thread and then go to bed. I have work again in about 5 hours. Hopefully this post didn't come off as impatient. I was just trying to be straightforward.
NIWA should always continue to grow, always continue to improve, never stagnate, and never be finished. Much like a Wiki itself, actually. There is always something that can be made better.
As for GameHiker, I don't think they were "promised" a spot, and even if they were, it's been a long time. They should be admitted if they want to be, and if we think they're a good addition to NIWA. I've always said that a new member should not be a drain on NIWA - other members do not need to worry about trying to hold up another member when it joins. Obviously, we help each other when we're in need AFTER joining, if an emergency arises or something, but a Wiki should not enter with the mindset of "NIWA is here to pick me up and do magic for me, and I'll just sit back and watch it happen." A certain level of quality and dedication is expected from all members, regardless of what one or a few staff member may have told a wiki such at GH in the past.
To be clear, I'm not saying we shouldn't add them. I'm simply saying we cannot add them no matter what, because we need to make sure they're good for us.
As far as a place for everybody to voice their opinions on what we can improve on, let me just say that NIWA is very, very well off, and very healthy. There are many things to fix, but overall there are no inherent flaws in our system. There were, but we underwent a massive reform effort starting in July that, of course, still continues. Of course, all ideas are welcome, but I must be very, very clear. When I make this thread, it is not an invitation to be rude, demanding, or bossy. It is an invitation to be heard. Respect is not optional. We have a staff of over thirty people, all from different communities, all with great ideas, great minds, and great talents. We are not incompetent. We are simply not perfect.
I will create such a thread and then go to bed. I have work again in about 5 hours. Hopefully this post didn't come off as impatient. I was just trying to be straightforward.
125
Membership and Affiliate Requests / Re: Non-nintendo Independent wikis | SONIC DOESN'T APPLY
« on: December 04, 2010, 01:20:50 PM »
I like this discussion, but one thing I must say is that there is far too much metaphorical comparison. We should not try to emulate the UN or the EU or anything else. We should be what we are and nothing more.
I have to get going in a few minutes, but I encourage this discussion to keep going, sans political minutia.
I have to get going in a few minutes, but I encourage this discussion to keep going, sans political minutia.
126
Membership and Affiliate Requests / Re: Wikkii.com seems alright
« on: December 02, 2010, 12:31:12 PM »
I feel like we should not get arrogant and begin underestimating Wikia's own resilience based simply on what it is at its core: convenient. Convenience will keep it strong and healthy, because there will always be a younger, new batch of users to repopulate what it has lost. They'll have to make much more serious blunders beyond Oasis to really do themselves in. I mean, why do you think such things as InvisionFree and ProBoards are still around?
127
NIWA Discussion / Re: Breaking even for independent wikis
« on: December 02, 2010, 12:28:54 PM »
I'm pretty sure ZW breaks even/turns a profit. I think its profits are used to help maintain the Zelda Universe server, which hosts both Zelda Universe and Zelda Wiki. I'm not intimate with ZU's finances, though.
128
Membership and Affiliate Requests / Re: Fire Emblem
« on: November 18, 2010, 04:00:24 AM »
We can get a formal review going soon. If none shows up in a day or two, I'll do one this Friday when I don't have class.
129
Membership and Affiliate Requests / Re: Robopedia
« on: November 18, 2010, 03:59:36 AM »
We should approach both these wikis about independence. Does anybody want to talk to them about it? I'd rather not have to go to every single Wiki, but I can if nobody else is willing.
130
NIWA Discussion / Re: Donkey Kong Wiki problem
« on: November 16, 2010, 10:14:01 PM »
Not to mention, NIWA has no authority over its members. We're not here to provide singular sources of information; on the contrary, I feel that if there's some crossover, it just means there's more information for our viewers to get. We only preserve content solidarity for the purpose of benefiting the member wiki in question.
Nobody will think to go to SMW for Donkey Kong information as long as Donkey Kong Wiki is on the hub page. I know I wouldn't, even knowing that there is DK information at SMW.
Nobody will think to go to SMW for Donkey Kong information as long as Donkey Kong Wiki is on the hub page. I know I wouldn't, even knowing that there is DK information at SMW.
131
The Lounge / Re: Final Fantasy Alliance
« on: November 09, 2010, 07:56:54 AM »
Glad to see people taking things into their own hands, rather than waiting for us to do things for them.
132
Membership and Affiliate Requests / Re: Affiliation Request - Wowpedia
« on: November 01, 2010, 10:32:44 PM »
I'm not going to waste my time further than the third admin and emailing the guy back saying "Wtf mister?" I'll meet them halfway but I'm not going to go there and back by myself just for them.
133
Membership and Affiliate Requests / Re: Game and Watch WIKI (Join Request)
« on: November 01, 2010, 12:35:28 AM »
I would advise staying on Wikia or just cutting your losses and moving over to ShoutWiki or Wikii and building your Wiki up there before you try to spend a lot of money going independent. Wiki farms aren't inherently bad in what they can do, but they are not viable options for NIWA Wikis. Wikia is probably the last nurturing and the most stifling, and you'll have the hardest time moving away from them.
Of course, if you want to become independent, we can help you, and will also do our best to nurture your Wiki along the way.
Of course, if you want to become independent, we can help you, and will also do our best to nurture your Wiki along the way.
134
Membership and Affiliate Requests / Re: Palutenapedia's Request for Affiliation
« on: November 01, 2010, 12:33:33 AM »
I don't see why we can't possibly be affiliates, but as someone already said, low-control Wiki Farm or not, it's not independent. They could at any point decide to start exerting control, and you couldn't stop them. It's a great starting place, though, and perhaps we can start recommending it as a midway point to independence, or as a way for people with limited funds to start up their wiki and build a following before spending lots of money.
Do you guys plan to ever get off of Wikii?
Do you guys plan to ever get off of Wikii?
135
Membership and Affiliate Requests / Re: Affiliation Request - Wowpedia
« on: November 01, 2010, 12:30:39 AM »
I've tried to contact 3 different admins on their talk pages and have gotten no response yet. I've emailed back the original sender asking who I should contact to get a response. @_@
136
Membership and Affiliate Requests / Re: Glitch City Laboratories (Join/Affiliation Request)
« on: November 01, 2010, 12:26:38 AM »
We've been discussing this as a staff, and many of the same concerns brought up here were brought up in the staff discussions.
We noticed the errors, and realized that you were not directly asking for membership at the moment. In fact, the thread we were using only discusses potential. We agree that when your issues like the errors are resolved, you guys could be good members.
Also, we wanted to make you aware of a similar site to yours that focuses on Zelda: Zelda Chaos. Perhaps you might consider a merge with them, and they may consider the same thing if you approach them? You could help each other not only get the best database on glitches, but also possibly improved servers, etc. This could also ease issues of "overlap" with Bulbapedia.
I apologize for the delay in email response. The Coordinator position is rather new, and I'm still figuring out how I want to handle requests like that: do I reply with a "We'll talk about it, thanks for stopping by" or do I wait until we have a decision? I just wanted to assure that we have been talking about it since you emailed me. Thanks for coming here and taking initiative for yourselves, though. That's a good sign.
We noticed the errors, and realized that you were not directly asking for membership at the moment. In fact, the thread we were using only discusses potential. We agree that when your issues like the errors are resolved, you guys could be good members.
Also, we wanted to make you aware of a similar site to yours that focuses on Zelda: Zelda Chaos. Perhaps you might consider a merge with them, and they may consider the same thing if you approach them? You could help each other not only get the best database on glitches, but also possibly improved servers, etc. This could also ease issues of "overlap" with Bulbapedia.
I apologize for the delay in email response. The Coordinator position is rather new, and I'm still figuring out how I want to handle requests like that: do I reply with a "We'll talk about it, thanks for stopping by" or do I wait until we have a decision? I just wanted to assure that we have been talking about it since you emailed me. Thanks for coming here and taking initiative for yourselves, though. That's a good sign.
137
NIWA Discussion / Re: Usage of Fanon
« on: October 30, 2010, 10:02:52 PM »
I agree. We'll just let them happen, but if you can find the support on those other wikis, go for it. However, a Wiki is a Wiki - within NIWA, all wikis are the same, regardless of subject matter. The fact that it is about Fanon and not Canon is the same as how Zelda Wiki is about Zelda and not Star Fox.
138
NIWA Discussion / Re: Usage of Fanon
« on: October 30, 2010, 07:30:46 AM »
Separate from NIWA? That sounds horrible. Why would we do that when we have previously said that NIWA needs to establish itself before we start helping other non-Nintendo franchises to create their own networks and alliances?
Fanon Wikis have their place in NIWA just as the Pikmin Fanon wiki does. NIWA was never billed as "Facts Only" because, let's face it: It's all fiction. I think that if a legitimate and well established and operated wiki on Zelda or Mario or Kirby or Star Fox fanon came around and wanted to join, and measured up to our standards, why not? We've let in Strategy Wiki, and they're not a franchise wiki - they're neither fanon nor are they canonical "Facts" about a series. Should we start a whole OTHER organization for Wikis about stuff like that?
I will always see our failure with Fantendo as the hallmark of what makes bureaucracy horrible. We do not need to separate everything into these neat little categories and label everything and put things in their own special confined little boxes. There needs to be this sense of unity, that after being called "Nintendo" we're all in this together. That's what unifies us.
I don't see a problem with start-up Fanon wikis. I agree that it would keep fanon off of our "facts only" wikis, and keeping these fanon Wikis inside of NIWA alongside their Canon counterparts would be better suited to that end.
Fanon Wikis have their place in NIWA just as the Pikmin Fanon wiki does. NIWA was never billed as "Facts Only" because, let's face it: It's all fiction. I think that if a legitimate and well established and operated wiki on Zelda or Mario or Kirby or Star Fox fanon came around and wanted to join, and measured up to our standards, why not? We've let in Strategy Wiki, and they're not a franchise wiki - they're neither fanon nor are they canonical "Facts" about a series. Should we start a whole OTHER organization for Wikis about stuff like that?
I will always see our failure with Fantendo as the hallmark of what makes bureaucracy horrible. We do not need to separate everything into these neat little categories and label everything and put things in their own special confined little boxes. There needs to be this sense of unity, that after being called "Nintendo" we're all in this together. That's what unifies us.
I don't see a problem with start-up Fanon wikis. I agree that it would keep fanon off of our "facts only" wikis, and keeping these fanon Wikis inside of NIWA alongside their Canon counterparts would be better suited to that end.
139
Membership and Affiliate Requests / Re: New Alliance Requests
« on: October 29, 2010, 10:45:15 PM »
It's got some recent edits, but it doesn't seem to have anyone really dedicated. Maybe someone could work on getting Administrator access if they have no active admins? I know Wikia likes to give that to people who are interested when a Wiki is "abandoned" by its original users. If we can get that much, then we can reinvigorate it and take it off Wikia possibly.
140