Author Topic: Best MediaWiki Hosts  (Read 30944 times)

Offline FlyingRagnar

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Best MediaWiki Hosts
« on: May 12, 2011, 01:20:53 PM »
What web hosts do NIWA wikis use? 

Over on Dragon Quest Wiki, we are now using hostgator.  I chose it because of the ability to have access to a shell login (although it is a jailed shell).  I did have problems installing MediaWiki, however.  They have a quota on the amount of time any one site can use the CPU on shared servers.  The installer seemed to have problems finishing the install because of this.  I managed to get things sorted out manually, but I don't envy having to do it somewhere else.  I would expect that these sort of quotas are typical of shared server setups.

Do most NIWA sites do an install using the web installer?  Or using the command line version?

Offline Maxite

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Re: Best MediaWiki Hosts
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2011, 04:57:28 PM »
I don't run a NIWA wiki, but I am working on some wikis of my own. I use BlueHost, which I consider to be fairly reliable and not too restrictive. The servers provide what you need to run wikis. BlueHost has a provider that can automatically install wikis, or you can manually install them by uploading the files via FTP to the server and doing it that way.

I do know that Fire Emblem Wiki uses BlueHost as its provider as well.

Offline Tappy

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Re: Best MediaWiki Hosts
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2011, 01:59:25 AM »
Shared hosting can have it's downfalls.

Just to make sure shared hosting is going to be HostGator, BlueHost, so on so forth. Unless you have a VPS/Dedicated Server with one of them. If you don't know what those are you probably don't have them.

The cons are:
Limited Resources
- You can't edit stuff that may be crucial. (PHP Config) some hosts may allow minimal configuration though.
- If your site is found to be using a lot of system resources which mediawiki isn't shy about your webhost may e-mail you basically saying you need to upgrade to a higher package, I think this is what happened with Wikirby?
- Slow, often these websites can be found to be slow due to limited resources and others using the same server for hosting, and who knows what they are doing.

Pros:
- Easy installation with Cpanel/Fantastico or something similar.
- Support. Some hosts will offer support in regards with your site.
- Inexpensive

If you know linux and how to make/manage a web server from scratch then and have money you are willing to spend then VPS/Dedicated is probably the way to go.

Cons:
- You have to install everything: php5, curl, apache, mySQL, phpMyAdmin, ftp, and anything else you may need. This can be tedious especially if this is your first time managing a VPS or Dedicated server.
- No easy and fast installs of php scripts. Unless your host offers CPanel with Fantastico or something similar or you dish out $500-$1000 for the stuff you are going to to need to download the files, upload them to the server. Create a mySQL database and install the php software yourself. This isn't really hard but can be tedious.
- Costly. /Good/ dedicated servers can go above $150 a month while VPSes can go for around $20-$100 a month.

Pros:
- Full access to your stuff. This can be both be good and bad. Bad if you mess something up, you will have to fix it. Good as in there are almost no limits to what you can do (as long as they follow your VPS/Dedi provider's AuP.
- More resources. You get a better share of system resources to yourself and your VPS. With Dedicated Servers you are the only one using that server so all those system resources go to you. VPSes can be seen as "shared" hosting but are almost always going to be better than normal non VPS shared hosting.
- Root access both VPS and Dedicated servers give you root control, or administrator privileges. This means you can control any part of the server that you want.

StarfyWiki.org is running on my WebVPS.

I can't really think of anything else to say but maybe some of the other guys can give some of their thoughts...

If you are wondering I own 2 Linodes, http://linode.com
1 Linode 512 (Runs IRC and a couple of IRC related stuff)
1 Linode 767 (Runs all my hosted websites including StarfyWiki.org)

Both are extremely stable and speeds are great.
Support is probably one of the best out there in the VPS market, you /will/ get a response to any ticket within 10 minutes.
They also recently just announced native IPv6 support, for those computer geeks out there.
They offer scripts that will help you setup a web server with apache, mySQL, php, etc.
Can be used to host minecraft and other gameservers!

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Offline FlyingRagnar

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Re: Best MediaWiki Hosts
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2011, 04:17:42 AM »
Great post Tappy.  While I love the possibility of not sharing a server, I'm not sure it will ever be financially viable for many of the NIWA wikis or the Dragon Quest Wiki.  I don't even put ads on our wiki because I simply don't think there will ever be enough revenue to be worthwhile.  As a result of the shared server, there are definitely times when a page load seems to stall for no reason.  I attribute this to the shared server getting slammed by some other site. 

Our wiki was moved from Wikia, so now that I have access to viewing the monthly visit stats, I can make some better judgements going forward based on our visit numbers.  Moving from Wikia was a pain in the @#$, because I had no access to the server at all.  They release free database dumps on request, but were using an older version of MediaWiki than the one hostgator would auto-install.  So I ended up installing the older version of MediaWiki myself (pain), then importing the database (more pain), then upgrading MediaWiki (even more pain). 

Then for the media, I had to write a script to scrape all the images and import them into the new wiki.  I'm sure than any future host changes will HAVE to be easier than this one was.  But we are months beyond that now and everything has been pretty good. 

Shell access is pretty important because I know of no other way to run maintenance scripts.  I don't think there is a way to do that unless you can install something to the server (probably can't).


Offline tacopill

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Re: Best MediaWiki Hosts
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2011, 05:19:01 PM »
you can install something, it just takes a little work.







Offline Jake

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Re: Best MediaWiki Hosts
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2011, 04:16:53 AM »
Great post Tappy.  While I love the possibility of not sharing a server, I'm not sure it will ever be financially viable for many of the NIWA wikis or the Dragon Quest Wiki.  I don't even put ads on our wiki because I simply don't think there will ever be enough revenue to be worthwhile.  As a result of the shared server, there are definitely times when a page load seems to stall for no reason.  I attribute this to the shared server getting slammed by some other site. 

Our wiki was moved from Wikia, so now that I have access to viewing the monthly visit stats, I can make some better judgements going forward based on our visit numbers.  Moving from Wikia was a pain in the @#$, because I had no access to the server at all.  They release free database dumps on request, but were using an older version of MediaWiki than the one hostgator would auto-install.  So I ended up installing the older version of MediaWiki myself (pain), then importing the database (more pain), then upgrading MediaWiki (even more pain). 

Then for the media, I had to write a script to scrape all the images and import them into the new wiki.  I'm sure than any future host changes will HAVE to be easier than this one was.  But we are months beyond that now and everything has been pretty good. 

Shell access is pretty important because I know of no other way to run maintenance scripts.  I don't think there is a way to do that unless you can install something to the server (probably can't).


I believe there is a MediaWiki extension that allows you to run some of the maintenance scripts. :)

Nookipedia also uses Linode as a host, and we have not had any problems with them so far. I can also back up Tappy's claim that tickets are always answered in less than ten minutes.

Offline Tappy

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Re: Best MediaWiki Hosts
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2011, 07:01:31 AM »
I've forgotten but with Linode they have stackscripts which can help you setup a webserver 100% easier.

http://www.linode.com/stackscripts/
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Offline tacopill

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Re: Best MediaWiki Hosts
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2011, 09:31:22 PM »
To answer your other questions:
Do most NIWA sites do an install using the web installer?  Or using the command line version?

When Lylat Wiki and WikiBound were first set up, i had manually installed them on a BlueHost shared server.

For Lylat Wiki, We moved it over to dreamhost, once our webmaster thought we were ready, and he could support it financially.

For WikiBound, we moved to a friend of the wiki's, Zelda Temple, owner of Fire Emblem Wiki, webspace on Bluehost.




I am currently looking into the possibility of hosting again, as i would like to offer hosting like i have done so previously. One of the options i am considering doing is a VPN, possibly with dreamhost.







Offline Tappy

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Re: Best MediaWiki Hosts
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2011, 05:25:09 AM »
From people I've known that have used a VPS from Dream host, website loads were extremely sluggish.
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Offline tacopill

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Re: Best MediaWiki Hosts
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2011, 07:29:10 PM »
From people I've known that have used a VPS from Dream host, website loads were extremely sluggish.

good to know. Is there any VPSs you recommend?







Offline Tappy

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Re: Best MediaWiki Hosts
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2011, 10:18:09 PM »
How much are you willing to pay per month?
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Offline tacopill

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Re: Best MediaWiki Hosts
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2011, 02:00:43 AM »
starting at $20 a month, till i get a hire paying job.







Offline Jake

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Re: Best MediaWiki Hosts
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2011, 11:53:20 PM »
starting at $20 a month, till i get a hire paying job.
Linode is a great VPS to go with in that case. Just install either the LAMP or LEMP stackscript and you'll be good to go! :)

Offline Tappy

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Re: Best MediaWiki Hosts
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2011, 12:08:41 AM »
starting at $20 a month, till i get a hire paying job.
Linode is a great VPS to go with in that case. Just install either the LAMP or LEMP stackscript and you'll be good to go! :)

This
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Offline tacopill

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Re: Best MediaWiki Hosts
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2011, 01:15:24 PM »
starting at $20 a month, till i get a hire paying job.
Linode is a great VPS to go with in that case. Just install either the LAMP or LEMP stackscript and you'll be good to go! :)

This

sweet. Thank you guys for the recommendation.







Offline Justin

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Re: Best MediaWiki Hosts
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2011, 12:58:07 PM »
Tappy. did you say the VPS had slow loads?  (For Dreamhost, I mean.) If Dreamhost is going to cause problems, I'd rather start looking for a new company now. I know Lylat Wiki will eventually need that upgrade. I'm just dreading the day because I know it's gonna be costly >.<
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Offline Tappy

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Re: Best MediaWiki Hosts
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2011, 02:21:50 PM »
from my experience the dreamhost servers seem sluggish.
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Offline FlyingRagnar

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Re: Best MediaWiki Hosts
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2011, 04:45:49 PM »
Thanks to all for posting good info.  For those of us on cheap hosting, it seems like linode is the best choice for improvement.  Unfortunately, most cheap hosting costs between $5-7 per month; That means a price increase of 300%.  I can't imagine ad revenue can be that good, so are you simply paying out of pocket for most of that?  

I'm not complaining; Good web hosting is gonna cost something.  :)

Offline Tappy

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Re: Best MediaWiki Hosts
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2011, 05:38:23 AM »
I pay $40 out of my own pocket each month for Starfy Wiki and a few of other websites, none of which have ADs on any of them. Although I am capable of paying the $40 on my own, for now, having a bill of $59 (I have two linodes, a 512 and a 1024, my websites and starfywiki are on the 1024) every month not including gas, personal stuff, medical bills, and other things it would  be nice to be able to pull some revenue somehow to at least pay for a little bit of the $40 a month. ADs can help with this but I find that ADs don't necessarily always pull that much $$ in unless you completely bomb the place with them all over, and no one likes ADs as is.

My only way to really pull revenue is to either sell hosting or ask for donations, and if someone where to donate it's probably going to be a one time thing.

In other words (TLDR):
Don't jump into getting a VPS if you know you are financially unstable. Make sure that you are in good standing and are able to pay the bills, if you can pay for a couple months at a time that's even better.
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Offline Koroku

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Re: Best MediaWiki Hosts
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2011, 02:56:48 AM »
I use a dedi. I've attempted to host Wikimon on shared (got told to go away), then on VPSes (kept hitting limits), and then a dedi. We even had to upgrade the dedi because Wikimon kept killing the server. :(

The server costs $160 a month, and I share the cost with 3 guys.

But it seems to be working; I have GSU and Wikimon running fine. And have toyed with the idea of doing another wiki, but not sure what for~